Uber now has to wait 15 minutes before picking you up in France

http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/28/uber-lecab-and-others-now-have-to-wait-15-minutes-before-picking-you-up-in-france/

by bjenik • 13 years ago

61 79 13 years ago

bjenik• 13 years ago

An idea to "fix" this:

In the beginning (after signing up) a bunch of orders are created and sent out to the drivers. The orders technically exist, but the drivers are told to not show up right now. Then, at least 15 minutes later, the user can tap a "show up now" button which tells the driver to actually pick up the user. So in the end you have to wait 15 minutes when using the service for the first time, but after that it is a lot faster because the orders created in the beginning can be "activated" immediately.

objclxt• 13 years ago

You could argue that it's Uber's attempts to "fix" pesky regulations that have got them into this mess in the first place. I doubt trying to circumvent this in the way you describe would really make the regulators any more sympathetic towards Uber.

There's an interesting business case study to be done between Uber and Hailo (based in London, far more popular there than Uber, expanding overseas), the latter of which was founded by cab drivers themselves and has taken a far more 'softly softly' approach to compliance (arguably at the expense of revenue, but the benefit of not having to deal with this kind of thing).

true_religion• 13 years ago

Well the point of circumvention is not to engender sympathy. It's to find a legal loophole wherein even if the regulators hate you, they can't pursue you.

dasmithii• 13 years ago

This is an interesting idea; however, it seems that it wouldn't necessarily help.

I'm uncertain whether the orders you speak of are reservations, or phonies with the purpose of circumventing the new bill. If the former is the case, drivers would still be unable to serve the greatest need - spontaneous rides. The latter could potentially work, but surely it would be caught eventually.

freyrs3• 13 years ago

That's a workaround, not a fix.

onedev• 13 years ago

A"hack" if you will.....

Sorry I will stop using that word now.

spindritf2• 13 years ago

Presumably, the taxi industry is "heavily regulated" for the benefit of the customer, then shouldn't customers flock to this excellent, regulated service on their own? Why are those artificial and arbitrary limits necessary?

officemonkey2• 13 years ago

The last time I went to Brasserie Flo after a concert at New Morning I waited 90 minutes at a taxi stand for cabs behind a 50-foot line of other late-night revelers. Cabs came 10 minutes apart. I have never waited so long for a cab in a major city.

The industry may be heavily regulated, but it does not seem to be rigged in favor of the customer.

If I knew I would get a ride in 15 minutes, I would snap at this in every city I travel to.

diminoten• 13 years ago

Not necessarily, not if some companies are committing fraud, or creating a monopoly.

southpawgirl3• 13 years ago

In some Italian cities the situation is no different: taxi licenses are issued only on a fixed, limited number and are sometimes inherited from father to child, often sold for mind-boggling amounts (comparable to the price of a house). The service as a result is quite crap: long waits, high prices per km and all the most contrived surcharges you can think of (5 additional Euros for the airport and some tourist destinations, etc). Each time a deregulation is proposed (and it does happen) there are immense backlashes from a small category that would be not only stripped of a privilege, but actually, properly ruined: some cabbies have to take 10 yrs mortgages to buy a license. It's a legacy state of affairs that carries on only because it's difficult to remove, not because it's of actual advantage to anyone.

gioele• 13 years ago

high prices per km

In Italy, and in other European countries, the taxi prices are set by the city councils, not the taxi drivers.

mikeash9• 13 years ago

The same basic situation exists in New York City. They're called taxi medallions there, and the small supply and large demand causes them to cost a surprisingly large amount of money. The government even has a convenient graph of the average price over time:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/downloads/pdf/price_trends_chart...

That shows a cost of 359,000 in 2006. More recent data is even crazier:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/downloads/pdf/avg_med_price_2013...

According to that, they cost a million dollars apiece these days.

onebaddude3• 13 years ago

the taxi industry is "heavily regulated" for the benefit of the customer

I get your point, but people decry the regulation that Uber is fighting against...until Uber implements free market "surge pricing". Then people are more than happy to leap back into the yellow cabs, which have their price regulated. Just read through some of the fallout.

In other words, all the free market vs regulation talk is lip service. People want what's best for themselves.

spindritf2• 13 years ago

until Uber implements free market "surge pricing". Then people are more than happy to leap back into the yellow cabs, which have their price regulated

That is assuming they can find one. Surge pricing incentivizes drivers to actually show up and compensates them for tougher conditions and additional risk.

mikeash9• 13 years ago

The entire point of rational regulation (not to be confused with insane regulation, which is sadly common) is to avoid market failures such as the tragedy of the commons. By their very nature, those market failures mean that a regulated industry cannot compete with an unregulated one, but people are still better off with the regulated one.

That's not to say that these regulations are beneficial or that regulations are needed at all here (I have no idea either way), merely that you can't judge the utility of regulations by letting them compete with deregulated industry and seeing which one wins.

yankoff• 13 years ago

a regulated industry cannot compete with an unregulated one, but people are still better off with the regulated one.

Can you please give one example?

thisosound6• 13 years ago

Regulation is a public good, therefore it is itself a market failure. Voters don't do hours of research to determine what constitutes rational regulation.

So, if there's a new law that will cost 990 people $1 each and the other 10 people gain 99 each... it will pass, because for 99% of the people it's not even worth an hour of their time to rally against it. However, the 1% that benefit from it can afford to organize entire campaigns to convince the 99% that this new law is for their own good.

elag2• 13 years ago

"BART drivers earn six figures. Why do they even need a union?"

w1ntermute• 13 years ago

...and they wonder why their economy is shit.

_cbb1• 13 years ago

+1 to this.

_red• 13 years ago

Must each taxi driver also be named Harrison Bergeron?

mehphp• 13 years ago

"Back in October, the French government mentioned this piece of legislation as these new services would hurt traditional cab drivers."

So? That's how the market and progress works. If a service can't stand up on it's own, it doesn't need to exist.

thenmar• 13 years ago

What a meaningless platitude. The world isn't quite as simple as that.

randyrand• 13 years ago

Sure, but in regards to creative destruction it is almost always true in my experience.

RBerenguel2• 13 years ago

Every time I see an Uber post related to Europe I wonder if in the US taxis don't need to pay the outrageous license fees (in addition to a whole lot of other things, like freelance income taxes.) It seems very beautiful on the outside, but in the end it seems like the service offered is a way for people to earn money without passing through the same hoops as others do. Seen from afar it seems innovation, but think again. It's unskilled people being paid for (what is usually) highly skilled work. Yes, I mean driving someone to a place.

ak2172• 13 years ago

The real world is quite as simple as that. Whatever roadblocks the government has put in the way are better implemented elsewhere (through social safety nets, retraining, etc.)

You might have a point when different industries with different built-in subsidies compete (taxis vs. buses or trains vs. planes). That's not the case here.

onebaddude3• 13 years ago

If a service can't stand up on it's own, it doesn't need to exist.

Ask the people who were priced out of transportation due to surge pricing what they think of the situation. Now imagine if Uber had driven all regulated taxis out of business and people were forced to pay exorbitant surge-pricing fees.

I'm not really against Uber or this strategy, but the "market" doesn't always sort things out fairly.

schiffern• 13 years ago

The smart services will leverage this. "The quickest pickup allowed by law!"

Schedule pickups in exactly 15 minutes with one touch. Countdown timer on the app, etc.

mentos• 13 years ago

What are the penalties for ignoring this rule?

jamespo• 13 years ago

Guillotine

bosma• 13 years ago

http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html

southpawgirl3• 13 years ago

Last October, France passed a bill against heavy discounting on books. They have this thing, to protect the existing market order against the disruption caused by new channels.

My first reaction is always to think that it's ridiculous; but then again maybe all those measures are only meant to minimize the casualties of progress, more than just being an obstacle to progress.

icelancer• 13 years ago

but then again maybe all those measures are only meant to minimize the casualties of progress, more than just being an obstacle to progress.

They are one in the same.

southpawgirl3• 13 years ago

True, and as I said, it does seem ridiculous to me. At the same time, I understand that progress has often broader implications that might appear as a price too high to pay for the society. So, I just abstain from casting stones in that case; even if on the whole I am quite happy I am not in France anymore.

auggierose• 13 years ago

So, can you get BOTH a taxi license and work for Uber ?

Signez• 13 years ago

A taxi license cost over 240,000 euros in Paris.

letstryagain• 13 years ago

Yes, I have seen traditional taxis drivers logged into Uber.

kailuowang• 13 years ago

I wonder when they will introduce a bill to force Google to wait 15 seconds to serve search results.

waps• 13 years ago

Don't say that.

It scares me.

sgdesign2• 13 years ago

Maybe I'm not as smart as french lawmakers, but I can't really figure out how they'd even enforce this?

Crito3• 13 years ago

Either occasional stings to take make an example of people, or using it as a possible additional charge to pile on in situations where there is already an investigation. Most laws do not have vigilant enforcement.

For example, (barring illegal searches or likely illegal 'stop and frisk') how do you enforce possession laws?

sgdesign2• 13 years ago

As a french person, I would be pretty upset to think my taxes are going towards paying people to order Ubers and make sure they take at least 15 minutes to arrive. It almost seems like something out of a Monty Python sketch.

nraynaud• 13 years ago

somehow I don't feel that we really need Uber, but simply more taxi plates. Uber is just a radio taxi, it's trying to use technology where the problem is legal.

raverbashing• 13 years ago

15 minutes? That's nothing

And you'll just order it 15min before your intended departure time

"In France, you have to pay a hefty price to get your taxi license"

How much does a taxi medallion cost in NYC again?

nationcrafting2• 13 years ago

France is one of the most frustrating countries a young entrepreneur could ever work in. As soon as you find some way to bypass the rigidity of the system to create something new, to make life easier for people and actually create wealth, the octopus grows another arm to strangle you with. It just sucks the energy right out of you...

The UK may have its problems, but it's a breath of fresh air by comparison. It's no wonder 600,000 French people now live in London (and that's just the ones who registered at the embassy).

elag2• 13 years ago

And no wonder that tens of thousands of Britons own second homes in France and many more holiday there.

nationcrafting2• 13 years ago

Exactly. When the system allows you to create wealth, and keep enough of it to make it worth the effort, more people can afford to buy second homes in sunny places.

danielharan• 13 years ago

I can't wait to see what creative solution all these officials will come up with when people start sharing their self-driving cars.

thisosound6• 13 years ago

The same that is happening in the States; they'll make it illegal.

Uber now has to wait 15 minutes before picking you up in France

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