On Paul Graham and Duck Dynasty

http://cbracy.tumblr.com/post/71423788182/on-paul-graham-and-duck-dynasty

by janogonzalez • 13 years ago

25 36 13 years ago

cbracy.tumblr.com

bobosha4• 13 years ago

Can't speak to the Duck Dynasty guy, but the skewering of PG is perfect example of the pc lynchmobs preventing a conversation about the absence of women in tech.

As a techie, I see think there's significant truth to PG's opinions. Surely it takes two to tango, the tech industry is keen to hire and encourage women entrepreneurs, but it's not like women are being turned away at the gates, by sexist VCs.

borski2• 13 years ago

I'm genuinely afraid of stating opinions about women in tech, almost no matter what they are. Being a white male, I have a lot of fear of being completely ripped apart in TechCrunch or ValleyWag for stating my opinions or making suggestions, because I'm never sure if I'm totally PC or not.

It sucks, because I want to help somehow, but I don't want to be misunderstood and have my name be raked through the coals either.

smadge5• 13 years ago

There is a pretty easy solution to your problem: get informed. Your opinion is worthless if you don't know what you are talking about enough to not infuriate people who do.

1337biz• 13 years ago

Same here. It is pretty much pointless to discuss this issue. Any opinion that doesn't align with a hyper PC standard is getting framed as "controversial".

Votes/Flags are the silent voices of those who can't afford to get drawn into a battle with potentially severe consequences about an issue which they have personally relatively little to gain from.

DoctorZeus• 13 years ago

And how does dismissing critics as "pc lynchmobs" advance the conversation?

Some people have oversimplified Paul Graham's perspective; doing the same to other people's perspectives will get no one anywhere.

skylan_q2• 13 years ago

The PC lynchmobs are the ones stopping the conversation. Instead of saying "prove yourself" they shout "bigot!"

The OP itself says that PG is saying "Crazy" things. How are they crazy? He doesn't point out how this is the case. Instead, he's made a final judgment and anyone that disagrees must also be crazy. There is no reasoning with those who shun reason and react to disagreement with accusations of craziness and bigotry.

hobs• 13 years ago

DO you really think that there isnt a conversation about the absence of women in tech? Really? At least every other day I see a front page article highlighting this fact, people getting upset because some conference's either do or do not contain women (some version of either insinuation of "we need women because we dont have them" or "we have women but they might not be as qualified and that makes some dudes mad") People trying to get women into tech with whatever method possible etc.

Maybe it isnt a pervasive piece of EVERY conversation, but you can literally find hundreds of articles on this site about that very topic. Hey look, right now! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6975533

mtrimpe4• 13 years ago

Yup; and they're all flagged off the front page in no time.

My favourite one is the article about one of the problems with women in tech being that Silicon Valley believes it's more meritocratic than it is, on which PG comments that it's really that meritocratic (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6795606)

I'm still curious if he spotted my last minute edit just as it was dropping off the front page while an interesting discussion was emerging.

smadge5• 13 years ago

But women chose not to join the tech industry because it is not an appealing option. It is not an appealing for any reason intrinsic to either women or the tech industry, but because the tech industry is currently dominated by men who are unable to create a comfortable work environment for women and because the tech industry enforces the norm that it is not for women. When an influential leader in the industry says that there is an intrinsic reason women can not be in technology, it is propagating that norm and preventing women from entering the industry.

csallen3• 13 years ago

What? Where did PG say "there is an intrinsic reason women cannot be in technology"? He never said anything remotely close to that.

bobosha4• 13 years ago

"But women chose not to join the tech industry because it is not an appealing option"

The point I am making is, people (women, blacks, latinos etc. and that includes the rabble who whine about "greedy companies hiring foreign workers") should not expect things on a platter. There is no giant conspiracy to make things "uncomfortable" for women or minorities.

A case-in-point is the success of Indian-Americans & other Asians in tech. I recently read that nearly 1/2 of startups in the valley has an Asian co-founder. It's not like tech had welcome buffets & red carpets laid out for the Asians.

While I too find the absence of women and non-Asian minorities in tech troubling. That change can only be wrought by starting up (pun intended). Reminds me of the saying by Gandhi "Be the change you want".

tomasien• 13 years ago

I think Paul also gets a pass because we're all basically 100% sure he means well. But that should be the opposite of what we do - I'm sure he is the kind of person who is always willing to revealuate his thoughts if presented with a good reason to.

mtrimpe4• 13 years ago

One of the things that's always bothered me about HN is how quickly articles about women in tech get flagged off the front page.

It took me a while to realize that this is actually a feature and not a bug as HN exists as a promotional tool for YCombinator.

Having much needed discussions around sensitive topics might be good for the community as a whole; but is much too risky a proposition for YCombinator to take on.

jgh2• 13 years ago

...and it's gone.

ericd4• 13 years ago

It doesn't fall off because of some skittishness on YC's part about taking a stance on these things or w/e. It falls off because HN is designed to throw off anything that is more inflammatory than interesting to read. I believe that this is for the sake of community preservation. This is going to fall off because it's going to be a comment section full of people misunderstanding things and shouting at each other, not because of any admin flag.

mtrimpe4• 13 years ago

No; it's going to fall off the front page because 10% of readers were irked by the story.

That is taking a stance on how to approach discussions on sensitive topics and is exactly what I was talking about.

What would happen if that weren't the case is pure speculation; because for all we know a common consensus would quickly emerge if these discussions would be allowed to run their course.

jgh2• 13 years ago

I feel like this thread isn't going to be as spectacular as it otherwise would, being that it's been posted on the weekend during the holidays.

skylan_q2• 13 years ago

Many things are manufactured to create outrage. I've no doubt the duck dynasty guy is one of these cases.

He’s been saying crazy shit like this on the regular for a while now...

Crazy? Maybe he's just gleaming from observation and experience or hunches? Is that crazy?

omonra• 13 years ago

OP might consider the fact that truth in the real world does not conform to his liberal ideals.

That perhaps not everybody who holds an opinion different from his own is a homophobe, racist or misogynist.

Uchikoma• 13 years ago

I don't want to imply Catherine Bracy is right or wrong.

From looking at it, PG describes how things are (YC applications, startup CEOs) and Catherine describes how things should be.

I myself get often argued with because people confuse when I describe things a I see them with I tell people how they should be.

dreamdu5t• 13 years ago

Subtext of the article is... white people are the gatekeepers to wealth, Paul Graham is racist and sexist, and white men pick and choose the new wealth class. And we should be angry at people like Paul Graham instead of Phil Robertson for judging people based on race or gender or sexual identity.

tzs• 13 years ago

He has said in the past that people with “strong” accents can’t be good CEOs

No, he said that people whose accents make it hard for others to understand them will likely have a hard time.

aeorgnoieang• 13 years ago

http://paulgraham.com/wids.html

On Paul Graham and Duck Dynasty

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