Why Women-Only Transit Options Have Caught On (2012)

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/commute/2012/02/why-women-only-transit-options-have-caught/1171/

by EGreg • 13 years ago

22 21 13 years ago

hmm.. article is almost two years old, so I wonder what the current situation is as I've never heard of segregation of the sexes in Japan.

graeme2• 13 years ago

The first sentence notes that women only-trains have existed in Japan for 100 years.

I find Hacker News has a recency bias. This is appropriate with tech stories, but often inapplicable in other areas where norms shift much more slowly. A two year old article can be quite reliable.

ojii2• 13 years ago

pretty much the same.

biff• 13 years ago

But there are worries the harsher penalties may have actually led some women to falsely accuse men of groping in the hope of a cash settlement.

It looks like until Japanese men and women – but especially men – learn to behave themselves on trains in mixed company, completely gender-segregated cars might sadly be the safest way to ride.

I leafed through a book once (and fully intend to actually buy and read though the thing soon) called the "No Asshole Rule". [1] My takeaway was that there are people who on the surface are extraordinarily productive but who are so destructive in interpersonal relations as to contribute negative value overall to a business.

Reading this article makes me wonder if, on a more general level, anybody's tried to quantify the amount assholes cost society in general. And how much of that cost is truly wasted vs. that which creates industry of benefit to all of us. I know effort's gone into using our understanding of psychology to steer people into more responsible social behaviors, but I wonder if all things considered we somehow end up in a better place because assholes are constantly testing limits and we come up with social accommodations for that behavior.

1: http://www.amazon.com/The-Asshole-Rule-Civilized-Workplace/d...

philwelch2• 13 years ago

The US actually ran a massive social experiment like this in the 80's and 90's, where repeat criminal offenders eventually got life imprisonment if they committed enough crimes. Now we have the world's largest prison population.

(I'm being a little wry.)

mikeash• 13 years ago

It seems impossible to quantify, but it's interesting to think about.

Lots of our tech heroes are assholes in one way or another. Many aren't, of course, but I think at least some of those who are owe some of their success to it.

Steve Jobs seems like an obvious example. Everything I know about him paints him as a total jerk, but a brilliant and inspiring total jerk. My guess is that the same personality traits that led him to change the world a few times also led him to deny paternity of his daughter. It's not too hard for me to imagine an alternate life for Jobs where he never manages to succeed in business (maybe he gets smacked down a little too hard for his phone phreaking activities) and ends up a run-of-the-mill asshole none of us ever heard of.

sliverstorm• 13 years ago

I wonder if all things considered we somehow end up in a better place because assholes are constantly testing limits and we come up with social accommodations for that behavior.

I'm sure in certain cases this works out to be true, but taking this example, segregated traincars seems like a big-picture loss (groping assholes aside). While it makes sense given the circumstances, it's not the desirable option. Sub-optimal from a transport POV, and further isolates the genders.

EGreg3• 13 years ago

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women-only_passenger_car

lettergram• 13 years ago

I'm just going to come out and say I think 104 incidents of the 100,000 - 1,000,000+ riding the trains is pretty low...

Further, I know multiple women (or I guess men) who would over react if they were accidentally touched and in a bad mood, tired, hungry, etc. With Japan's very large population in a relatively small place I can imagine this happening often. I am sure that groping happens, but it seems as though this is at least as much hype as it is facts.

EGreg3• 13 years ago

It is also implemented in Brazil and several other countries for years. One article about the Brazil trains said the grandmothers used to bring needles to ward off the gropey guys back in the day.

whyenot• 13 years ago

104 reported incidents on a single subway line. The number of unreported incidents is likely much higher.

sfall• 13 years ago

Unfortunately there is no way to determine if the actual is 110 or 1100 so you can only base off reported incidents

graeme2• 13 years ago

"....And that figure is most likely just a fraction of the total since many victims don’t come forward out of embarrassment, inconvenience, or the sheer difficulty of figuring out who on a packed subway car touched them."

Would you go to the police to say that someone fondled your breast, but you don't know who, and the train has left now?

I've talked to Japanese women who say that groping is very much a thing on trains there.

ojii2• 13 years ago

From wikipedia: " Groping in crowded commuter trains has been a problem in Japan; according to a survey conducted by Tokyo Metropolitan Police and East Japan Railway Company, two-thirds of female passengers in their twenties and thirties reported that they had been groped on trains, and the majority had been victimized frequently."

can't check the source as it's behind a mobile paywall.

jsonne2• 13 years ago

Serious question. I've traveled rather extensively and this seems to be a much more serious problem outside the US as opposed to within the US. Does anyone have any insight into this? Is this purely anecdotal on my part?

Myrmornis• 13 years ago

When you say outside the US, do you definitely not mean "outside affluent western society"? Or do you find it more common in London, Vienna, Sydney, etc?

jsonne2• 13 years ago

Southern Europe (Italy and Spain specifically) it seems to be more of an issue than London or say Hamburg.

philwelch2• 13 years ago

Of course getting groped on public transit is a bigger problem outside the US. People don't ride public transit in the US.

cclogg• 13 years ago

Random unrelated hilarious moment: When I finished reading, I looked at the other articles linked below, and one of the images used was randomly from my flickr page (of my gf) hahaha. Such a weird moment to see that, considering the image only has 16 views. But I do set all my photos for complete open use.

EGreg3• 13 years ago

Why was this title renamed? It used to say "train cars where men are not allowed". What was wrong with that title?

Why Women-Only Transit Options Have Caught On (2012)

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