Australia tried to monitor Indonesian president's phone

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/18/australia-tried-to-monitor-indonesian-presidents-phone

by mafro • 13 years ago

39 29 13 years ago

theguardian.com

thejosh• 13 years ago

Even aussies can't make nice slides...

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/20...

girvo2• 13 years ago

Come on, us Aussies are just dying to become "Little America" (at least at the political level). Of course that goes through to terrible slides ;)

kevcampb• 13 years ago

"Asked about the spying revelations in a separate interview, Abbott said: "To use the term spying, it's kind of loaded language … researching maybe. Talking to people. Understanding what's going on.""

Is this the onion?

alwaysinshade• 13 years ago

No, that's just Tony Abbott. Expect more hilarity in the years (days?) to come. If you can't wait, just Google some of his past statements. If you like prejudice, two-dimensional thinking and more meaningless rhetoric than you can shake a stick at, then you're going to love Tony Abbott.

Let's see where he can take a country that ranked #2 on the Human Development Index and the highest of 34 countries on the OECD Better Life index. Should be interesting, considering he was voted in by the "Aussie battlers" who were enjoying a better quality of life than they've ever experienced in Australian history (notice Australia doesn't move on the HDI even when you account for inequality? The US sure does, from #3 to #16). Should be great when, under the Trans-Pacific Partnership he sells out to the US to trade a few horses [1] and our healthcare/pharmaceutical industry emulates the American system. Good times ahead.

[1] "there's always horse-trading in these negotiations, but in the end … everyone is better off" - Tony Abbot, November 14, 2013

voltagex_2• 13 years ago

If I think pessimistically, between the TPP, NBN and carbon "tax", this government could do 50+ years worth of damage to Australia's economy, not to mention damage to reputation.

What can we do?

boogydown22• 13 years ago

For anyone who doesn't know, Tony Abbot == George Bush Jr.

He's incredible repugnant & stupid. It is definitely damning when someone like him actually could get elected. What a time to live in...

girvo2• 13 years ago

I for one, am leaving. Wasn't born here anyway, if I'm not careful they'll consider me fishing in the river in my tinny "illegal boat person", etc. sigh. What happened? :(

zaqokm2• 13 years ago

Like him or not, the documents were dated 2009 so at least part of this took place during the Rudd era. So I gather that makes Rudd, Dick Cheney ;).

tn132• 13 years ago

What is so surprising in that ?

craigvn• 13 years ago

Surely as an ally of the US we could have just asked for their copy of the Indonesians phone records.

alexeisadeski33• 13 years ago

Dog bites man.

Are we supposed to be surprised at this? Appalled? Impressed? Isn't it normal for countries to spy on each other? What do we think intelligence agencies do?

danenania2• 13 years ago

Slavery was normal for several millennia. Massive pollution and environmental carelessness are normal too.

Bad acts aren't justified by being normal. If anything, it means the problem is systemic and therefore needs to be dealt with even more urgently.

alexeisadeski33• 13 years ago

Okay, so why is this bad?

tn132• 13 years ago

I am not sure what is there that this makes a news (and that too on HN). Spying is a very old tool in the art of statecraft. It is neither inherently immoral nor illegal.

Even when we show outrage against NSA's snooping program, the only valid argument is that NSA perhaps can not snoop on American citizens as per the 4th amendment.

The only locus standi that we as tech people can have is that we should focus building on technologies that are more and more government proof and beneficial to the tech community and government. We should fight tooth and nail with any attempts by government that might force us to put backdoors, bugs and deliberate vulnerabilities which can ease any governments job.

danenania2• 13 years ago

Of course spying is immoral. I sure wouldn't want to be the friend or partner of someone who thinks it isn't.

Torture and genocide are also very old tools in the 'art' of statecraft, so that's not much of an endorsement.

If the supporters of this stuff are really down to 'well everybody does it', perhaps that's a sign that it's really just bad behavior.

alexeisadeski33• 13 years ago

Nations spying on each other is immoral? Why?

Xylakant• 13 years ago

I am not sure what is there that this makes a news

This is not news for all the initiated. It is news for the general population that is not aware of the extend that current spying takes. This also makes it important news for the general population since secret services undermine fundamental principles of democracy: Transparency and accountability. All revelations in the wake of Snowdens leak show that secret services around the world try to extend their capabilities and at the same time evade their responsibilities to report correctly to their government appointed controllers - be it the senate or the bundestag or whatever you call it in your country.

Also, spying is illegal, namely by the laws of the country you're spying on. It's also immoral, at least in the cases where your president signed a treaty promising not to spy and still, someone obviously ignored that agreement.

Even when we show outrage against NSA's snooping program, the only valid argument is that NSA perhaps can not snoop on American citizens as per the 4th amendment.

The much better argument is maybe that while it's technically not illegal, the cost-benefit analysis shows a net negative. Circumvention of legal checks and balances is another one. Just because some action may be legal doesn't make it a good thing in all cases - see ciscos latest losses.

zik• 13 years ago

It is neither inherently immoral nor illegal.

Whether it's moral surely depends on whether you think people have a right to private communication. If you think it's immoral for someone to monitor your personal communications, then someone monitoring Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono's phone is surely immoral too.

I don't buy that it's someone less immoral because the stakes are higher.

Australia tried to monitor Indonesian president's phone

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