Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy

https://medium.com/dear-blank/bd6321c66b37

28 6 13 years ago

vannevar3• 13 years ago

It probably wasn't the intended effect, but this article leaves the impression that the author doesn't mind being demeaned by men---when they dismiss her ideas because she's a woman, she just laughs it off---but very much minds being criticized by women for not complaining about it. I understand the motivation: if you're a woman in tech just trying to do cool stuff, it's got to be a little irritating to always be expected to be some kind of role model and activist. But it seems inconsistent to say "how comfortable I’ve always felt and still feel in the tech community" and then reel off a series of incidents where you experienced sexism, including the attempted rape of a friend at a conference.

heygiraffe• 13 years ago

Well, but it was a friend who was attacked; not her. We probably would not think it was inconsistent for a man whose female friend was attacked at a conference to remark that he felt comfortable in the tech community. But the writer is not allowed to think that way, which is some of what I think she is complaining about.

... the author doesn't mind being demeaned by men---when they dismiss her ideas because she's a woman, she just laughs it off ....

Or perhaps she was feeling superior, not laughing it off. Here was this guy putting down her proposal on the basis of gender, and then she comes back with an implementation. So it could have been an I-showed-him kind of thing.

vannevar3• 13 years ago

. We probably would not think it was inconsistent for a man whose female friend was attacked at a conference to remark that he felt comfortable in the tech community.

Well no, because men are rarely raped at conferences. But if men were savagely beaten in the stairwells as often as women are harassed at conferences, then we probably would find that inconsistent, even if it happened to a friend and not him.

Or perhaps she was feeling superior, not laughing it off.

Maybe so. Why then doesn't she take same attitude with women who criticize her? Why is she "comfortable" with sexism but feels compelled to complain that women can't empathize with her level of comfort?

mcv• 13 years ago

She doesn't deny that she was discriminated. She just didn't notice at first, because it happened on a closed mailing list. And by the time she discovered it, she's already proven the bigot wrong.

She's absolutely fortunate to be in that position, compared to other women who get more publicly demeaned, and don't get the opportunity to prove the bigots wrong. But it's also important that her story gets told, and that she doesn't get labeled as "the problem" simply because her experience is more positive than that of others.

We need more women with positive experiences in tech. Denying the positive creates the impression that it's hopeless, and there's nothing good regarding equality in the tech world. The good examples exist, and we should see them as beacons, rather than deny their existence. In the end, I hope more women get to experience tech like she did, and more misogynists get their comeuppance.

vannevar3• 13 years ago

I agree, and certainly have no intention to deny the positive. It's just that the author's experience, as she relates it, doesn't sound unusually positive. It sounds typical. What seems unusual is her tolerance for negative experiences. And I can see how her female peers might interpret her attitude as "Hey, suck it up, I did." I'm not sure that their empathy is the problem.

aclevernickname• 13 years ago

no surprise this post wasn't popular; it goes against the narrative.

I enjoyed it, FWIW.

Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy

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