Radical Inclusion vs. Radical Self-Reliance at Burning Man

by rms • 13 years ago

83 28 13 years ago

lolwutf• 13 years ago

Ugh. Here we go again.

I'm really beginning to become tired of the constant tension associated with being in the tech industry (and, by proxy, its rung on the economic ladder):

-we're driving up rent and destroying culture in San Francisco

-we're ruining Burning Man

-we blow big money at yuppie places on yuppie things

Can't we all just keep a low profile?

If Dustin really wanted to talk about his encounter with the Winklevii, did he really need to write a blog about the nature and economies of Burning Man, or couldn't he have just focused specifically on the nuances of his encounter?

The horrible PR we all collectively maintain for ourselves is a definite NEGATIVE in this industry, sometimes.

For the record, I'm an average dude, went with a camp of other average, well-balanced people, setup my own damn tent, had a average amount of average gear, spent an average amount of time and money on preparation, and didn't have an extravagant time above and beyond most people there. And it was enormously satisfying.

I also work in the tech industry, have done well for myself, make a crazy salary, and generally didn't make a big deal about it.

EDIT - Not saying there weren't parts of this post that didn't need to be said (the encounter and it's ramifications are incredible!), but a large part felt like ripping open a scab and just rubbing salt on the wound that is our presence.

rms3• 13 years ago

I thought this was an exceptionally well-written, nuanced article and your comment, to me, just reads like typical Hacker News complaining.

Helianthus3• 13 years ago

It's worse than that; it's a weird attempt to exonerate the tech industry that I don't understand.

It reads very much to me like: "Leave me alone, I have mine."

Helianthus3• 13 years ago

The horrible PR we all collectively maintain for ourselves is a definite NEGATIVE in this industry, sometimes.

Doesn't occur to you that the tech industry deserves it, does it.

csallen3• 13 years ago

I believe I understand your point, but I most whole-heartedly disagree. Rarely is it advisable to avoid acknowledging/discussing a problem merely because doing so is uncomfortable.

MLK Jr. wrote an amazing letter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_from_Birmingham_Jail) that expressed a similar sentiment. In it, he asserted that overtly-racist whites were better for the civil rights movement than those who were against racism and yet remained silent because conflict made them too uncomfortable.

(Not that class divisions at Burning Man are as important as civil rights, by any means. But you get my point.)

fixxer3• 13 years ago

I don't get your point. How can I while still on the floor laughing at how anyone could compare a hippie revival with the civil rights movement?

If you started chanting hari krishna right now this wouldn't be any more strange.

gcatalfamo2• 13 years ago

This post made me want to go to next Burning Man with his team...

rms3• 13 years ago

How much do you want it? https://asana.com/jobs :)

gcatalfamo2• 13 years ago

well played...

rms3• 13 years ago

I've heard that the amount of lighting and fire in the night sky at Burning Man works as a leading indicator of the economy, and if this year at Burning Man was an indicator, the economy is back.

I think much of the tension between haves and have-nots at Burning Man is contrived. I see modern Burning Man as a colloboration between wealthy techies from the Bay Area and builders and makers living closer to the event. There might be a higher proportion of spectators to participants at Burning Man in recent years, but in terms of absolute quantity there are more participants than ever.

Burning Man is not a communist utopia. It's just Burning Man.

coldtea• 13 years ago

Burning Man is not a communist utopia.

No, it's a BS hipster fest.

I wanted him to experience the city and to experience gifting because I thought it would make him grow as a person and the world better off as a result

Takes naivety to a whole new level.

dnr2• 13 years ago

"my own clothes were still all wrong"

I can't even imagine what this might mean in this context. It was pretty clear to me even on the first day that there's no right or wrong way to dress, it's just part of that (radical) self-expression thing.

mullingitover3• 13 years ago

King Missile wrote what I consider to be the theme song for Burning Man[1], and is relevant here.

[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=351wGhomUNI

dnr2• 13 years ago

Of course there's plenty of conformity in Burning Man fashion. It is still fashion.

twic• 13 years ago

I was disappointed to find that this was not a link to Detachable Penis.

tullius• 13 years ago

I had the same feeling the first time I went. Seeing the amazing costumes people had spent hours putting together made me want to develop my own style and kicked my creativity into high gear. Sure, strangeness is encouraged, but since most people take that in a personal direction I don't think of it as another type of conformity.

mullingitover3• 13 years ago

Techies aren't ruining burning man, techies made burning man. Without the techie demographic, burning man would be overrun with hippies and it'd be indistinguishable from any old Rainbow Gathering. Yes, people spend a lot of money on burning man. An obscene amount, even. However, I'd bet that a majority of that money is on art projects and legit theme camps, and only a sliver is spent on the 'turn-key camps' that people get their knickers in a twist about.

subsystem• 13 years ago

I think you proved a point here, just probably not the one you expected.

mullingitover3• 13 years ago

How many of Cacophony Society people who led Burning Man to the playa were techies? I'm guessing this number is a lot more than zero.

fnordfnordfnord• 13 years ago

I'd bet that a majority of that money is on art projects and legit theme camps

One trip's expenses from Texas for a dozen people. Most of our expense is getting there and back.

Fuel $4000

Tires $2500 (4 flat tires, more than usual)

Geodesic Dome $900 (reusable)

Food $1400

Water Storage $300 (reused three times)

Most of our theme camp stuff is used/re-purposed things that don't cost a lot.

secstate• 13 years ago

Sigh. Having never lived on the West Coast or been swept up in Valley culture, I'm having trouble even parsing this blog post for value beyond the, fairly obvious conclusion, of BMOrg's actual mission statement (which is partly in the title of the post).

Please don't mistake me for being a jerk. Burning Man seems like it would be an awesome experience. But this article seems overly critical and self-conscious about an event that by design should eschew both.

Also, I hope you have BRC's permission to use those photos ;-)

fixxer3• 13 years ago

I'm a native of California and I'm not having any easier of a time getting this, I assure you.

Burning Man sounds like fun, but this post struck me as contrived and in complete juxtaposition to (what I think is) the intent of the festival. Wrong clothes??

If you're going to a festival seeking a religious awakening, you're doing life wrong.

Helianthus3• 13 years ago

If you're going to a festival seeking a religious awakening, you're doing life wrong.

I think that attitude is something those who feel BM is important would deem "doing life wrong."

The world is not playgrounds to be attended for fun.

the_cat_kittles• 13 years ago

I've never been to burning man. It does seem weird that in order to be "radically included" you have to travel to a specific place on earth at a specific time and do a bunch of stuff. I feel jealous when people talk about how its a spiritual experience. I find it hard to believe that it can be so transformative yet so short, relatively speaking- but I don't dismiss it instantly. Is it kind of like some of the more interesting/fun oriented frisbee tournaments? The only people I know that have gone are not inclusive people, they are competitive about being hip. The whole thing is a bizarre mystery to me. It does seem interesting though.

Radical Inclusion vs. Radical Self-Reliance at Burning Man

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