Ask HN: I do not enjoy my job, what to do?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6319965

by plsadvice • 13 years ago

14 22 13 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

Hi,

I am 25 years old, and completed a computer science degree 3 years ago.

For the past three years I have been in a permanent full-time position as a computer programmer. However I do not enjoy this job. I have very limited time to explore new interests, and in addition due to where I live, it takes me 2 hours of daily travel to get to the workplace.

What should I do? I am unsure if I should quit as everyone I have spoken to mentions that I should be grateful that at least I have a job in this economic climate, and that all jobs have some disadvantages.

Also I do not know what I would be able to contribute of economic value if I was to become unemployed, or if I could even find another job outside of ICT. To be honest I would rather be outside, meeting people and creating things rather than sitting in an office all day 5 days a week. I feel that I currently only have my programming skills and have no idea how to safely move to something else.

Thanks

meerita• 13 years ago

Leave. Search for something more motivational. Freelance remotely for a time.

ig1• 13 years ago

The first thing you need to ask is if it's programming you're not enjoying or the role in the particular company that you're not enjoying.

There are many roles which combine technical skills with people skills if that's what you're looking for. For example consultancy, sales engineers, dev evangelists, etc.

You should build a list of what you'd want from a role and then finds roles that meet that criteria. You can always wait until you get a new job offer before quitting your current job if you're worried about unemployment.

k0t0n0• 13 years ago

I'm 21 right now and i felt that same thing 6 months ago. Then i left my job. i still think i mad a great decision.

Stop killing your self and follow your <3. (this line is bull shit)

based on my experience

pro: happy as fuck life. 0% depressed life. no shit from boss. you can code only when you want. infinity amount of time to do new things. you can work on startups, cool. you can freelance. (i only do freelance now)

cons: you will need money, which is kinda hard. (if you are not a rich basted) Unemployed tag feels like shit. (if you are not doing freelance) slowly you will go away from programming. (programming is not fun when you do it too much) you will make less money, and 25 age is for marriage in my country. i'm 21 so i don't care about that right now. but you are fucked.

chris_wot• 13 years ago

i'm 21 so i don't care about that right now. but you are fucked.

Truly, the voice of wisdom and experience!

impendia• 13 years ago

I should be grateful that at least I have a job in this economic climate,

You should be grateful.

and that all jobs have some disadvantages.

This is very much also true.

But neither of the above implies that you shouldn't move on.

I feel that I currently only have my programming skills and have no idea how to safely move to something else.

This is a really excellent question. I have no idea how to answer it, as it is different for every person, but this is definitely worthwhile to think about.

The one piece of relevant advice I've read (from What Color Is Your Parachute?, which you should probably read) is to try and transition to something that uses your demonstrable skills, but that also involves being outside, and/or meeting people, and/or creating things.

Good luck to you!

Leander_B• 13 years ago

Tough spot..

Maybe tell us a bit more about your background (location, salary, work conditions, relationship, responsibilities, also social life etc..). As maybe there is more then just the job which is bothering you? (2 hours of commute a day would make me hate >90% of jobs)

If you are really sure it's the job, my suggestions would be to try to save as much as possible the next 5-6 months, quit your job, live frugal as long as you can and explore other options and then decide to pursue what makes you happy the most. Also, how 'hard' is your work? I know plenty of developers who only work 5-10hrs a week at their day job and are busy with other stuff while working. So if you can, use that time to plan ahead.

For me also, I kind of dislike my job (but I'm paid extremely well at my age, don't have much alternative, have obligations, have in general a very very good life so I don't really care of one aspect which is my job) but I just do it because I have to and don't mind after all compared to the rewards.

Would much rather be a farmer, but then again, I wouldn't want to give up my comfortable life or get back problems in 20 years of now. So maybe you are not that bad off after all?

andrewcooke• 13 years ago

is this your first job? jobs vary hugely within the industry and that can really affect how much you enjoy work. so if this is your first (or second) programming job, you should really try just changing. my first programming job was horrible, but my second was pretty awesome.

second, 2 hours of commute is wasting a huge amount of time. that's not a good way to live. why are you doing that? move closer to where the jobs are. you don't need to be living in the suburbs unless you have a wife and kids (and even then, you still have options).

you may find that simply fixing those two things gives you a good life without any other big change.

bf_1• 13 years ago

Find a new job.

kaonashi• 13 years ago

My first programming gig was in a windows shop in a small market doing plug-in programming on a proprietary platform. I stayed way too long, but my next gig was really interesting and paid over twice as much. I had to move to a bigger market, though.

FurrBall• 13 years ago

"I should be grateful that at least I have a job in this economic climate"

Really? How about you test that theory by seeing what hits you get in a job search or with a recruiter. You don't need to quit your job to start your search.

"Also I do not know"

Start a job search then you'll know.

lgieron• 13 years ago

99% jobs are meant to at least kinda suck - that's why compensation is necessary. Being paid to do interesting stuff is possible only if your definition of "interesting" differs greatly from the society's (so there's no competition) or if you're truly great at what you do. For now, there are two things you can do (at the same time):

1. Reprioritize. Most people cope with their jobs sucking by viewing them as just a mean towards living an interesting/satisfactory life, not as a value in itself. If you can't get satisfaction out of your current job, you might as well focus more on life instead.

2. Try to develop a skill in a field that interests you. If you'll keep pushing, you will eventually get paid to do that (of course it's easier to get paid well as a machine learning specialist than as a contemporary dancer, so don't totally disregard market realities).

Also, I'd do something about that commute. Move closer to the job if you can. Or start searching for a job closer to home. Or try doing freelancing/contracted work (ideally from home) - that's the best way to have enough time left for 2).

Casseres• 13 years ago

99% jobs are meant to at least kinda suck - that's why compensation is necessary.

Not necessarily. If you have someone that loves their job and does it extremely well, you still need to pay that person so that person can pay his/her bills and stay there. Otherwise, that person will leave for a job that he/she likes less and is not as good at, just to be able to pay the bills.

I know several people that LOVE their jobs, but they have a family to support. If those jobs didn't pay, they wouldn't be working there because loving a job doesn't put food on the table.

strick• 13 years ago

First - your commute is insane and is the first thing I would fix.

I recommend saving 25x your annual spending and retiring. Until you have the true freedom of not serving others you will always be trapped to some extent. Search for 'mr money mustache' or 'early retirement extreme' to learn more about this mindset.

wing328hk• 13 years ago

Well you're only 25. I strongly recommend you to try something that might interest you. If you never try, you will never know. Good luck!

coolswan• 13 years ago

Definitely don't quit right away unless you have the bank account to do so. I'd first find someone that is doing what you think you want to do and get their advice. Beyond that, spend any free time you have trying to "meet people and create things." If this becomes infinitely better than find any job that recreates that, even if it means less wages. Start from the bottom, work hard and get to the top.

neekb• 13 years ago

I feel that I currently only have my programming skills and have no idea how to safely move to something else.

That's a pretty damn good skill to have. I often think the opposite "If only I knew how to program I would..."

staunch• 13 years ago

1. In your free time find something that you genuinely like to do and start doing it. Figure out how to make money at it.

2. Save up a bunch of money.

3. Quit and go do #1 full-time.

pasbesoin• 13 years ago

If you are following the "common" advice (e.g. you should be grateful), then you should also consider that part of that advice particularly "in this economic climate" is that it is easier to get another job when/while you are already employed. Some companies (although I'm not arguing that they are necessarily the ones you want to work for) are actively screening out applications from unemployed persons.

If you want another job, find it if you can while you are still employed.

If you are looking to make a larger change, save up. Your living expenses may well increase while you are unemployed, for example due to paying for your own health insurance (in the U.S., you will likely be eligible for limited duration continuation under COBRA, but you will have to pay the entire cost of that insurance out of pocket).

As for the staying in unhappy circumstances: Trust your intuition as to whether the "balance" is acceptable. If not, don't stay too long -- take it from someone who did. It becomes self-destructive (passively, if not actively), even with the best of intentions.

There's difficult, and then there's pointlessly, going nowhere difficult. The two are different.

You want some upside, whether it's in the job itself, and/or in your personal life. And even if the job's good, don't forgo a personal life (in my opinion).

Arjuna• 13 years ago

I'm sorry to hear that you are struggling. Hopefully the following will help you.

As with many things in life, it is vital to break problems down into their component parts, so that you can fully understand and appreciate the nature of the problem. This will allow you to see all of the available options as you work toward a solution.

Let's break out 3 important areas in your post:

1. The commute.

Commutes can be quite an emotional drain, particularly if you have to drive.

Try to separate your feelings about your job from the feelings about your commute. For example, if you lived 5 minutes away from your job, would that change how you felt about your job? In my estimation, this is an important question to ask yourself, because it is possible that there are aspects of the job that you like, but the commute is destroying any goodness that exists for you about your job.

On the other hand, you may find that even if you lived 5 minutes away from your job, that you simply do not like it. This is, of course, fine as well, but it is an important exercise; that is, break the problem down into its component parts.

2. The job.

I agree with the practice of gratitude, and it is true that all jobs have both advantages and disadvantages, but none of this means that you should not try to grow and better yourself. I do not believe that you should "suffer in gratitude". If you are truly unhappy and want something more out of life, then my advice is to strive toward making a change.

One place to look is, perhaps surprisingly... your current job. That is to say, you might be in one area of the business, but with your contacts at your current job, perhaps you can make a move into another area of the business. This may or may not be possible, depending on your circumstances, situation, size of the business, etc., but it is worth considering if you have not considered it before.

Otherwise, if you know that your only choice is to move on, then you need to go to a quiet space, perhaps on a hike as I like to do, and ask yourself:

"What kind of job do I really want?"

What I mean here is, you are in ICT now, but do you want to be in something else entirely? Mobile? Game development? Web? You have to answer that question so that you can formulate an "exit strategy" from your current situation to a new situation.

If you want to stay in ICT, then the transition to a new job will be easier, because you already have experience and skills in that field. In that case, you could just start looking and going on interviews that interest you.

Otherwise, if you want to switch into something new, then you have to get up to speed in that new area, so that you can give yourself a shot at getting an interview in the new area, while simultaneously being able to discuss the new area with someone during an interview. Ideally, you want to develop a portfolio. For example, if you wanted to move into games, you would want to have a portfolio of games and graphic demos to show your potential employer. This will help give you credibility in your efforts to switch gears into a new career field.

3. On quitting your job.

I would advise that you not quit your job without an exit strategy. Of course, it may look like an attractive option compared to where you may be currently, but, unless you have a lot of stacks put away, you will quickly become stressed about financial issues, which will result in being unproductive and possibly depressed, neither of which will be beneficial to you, your life-goals or anyone around you. Also, this may force you into a position where you may be desperate to take any job after you burn through your cash reserves, which will likely land you in the same position as the one that you are asking about in your post. So, plan it out. Try to remind yourself that the pain of staying at the current job while you figure all of this out is going to be far better than the pain of simply quitting without an exit strategy and "hoping for the best."

Finally, I wrote some similar thoughts in a previous post to someone else. They are slightly different, but they might help you as well:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6220534

In summary:

1. Do not quit your job without an exit strategy.

2. Think about your commute (i.e., Do you like your job, but dislike your commute?)

3. Can you make a move into something better that you like at your current job?

4. If not, figure out what kind of job that you want.

5. If you decide that you want to stay in your current field, then start interviewing.

6. If you want to change fields, develop an exit strategy to get you there (i.e., a portfolio, start researching the new area, etc.)

I hope this helps. Best of luck!

allenp• 13 years ago

Sorry you're feeling discontent. I've written some advice on this in the past and am linking to it here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1843266

No matter where you go and what you end up doing, businesses ebb and flow and your interests and motivations will also change and you will find yourself here again.

The key is for you to build an internal toolset (mental, emotional) to assess and proactively work towards your goals.

You mentioned that you would rather be outside, meeting people and creating things - there are absolutely jobs that incorporate both software and these other aspects - think of things like greenhouse automation (outside) or positions writing software for coffee shops or ?? There is an entire world of software.

Good luck!

willcode4equity• 13 years ago

Consider moonlighting for equity rather than salary... I need coders to develop different business plans and am willing to share equity in leu of monetary payment. If the business-plan you are assigned to is successful, or generates revenue, we both win. If it fails (most do), you gained some entrepreneurial wisdom and stepped outside of the box for a short period of time—and you still have your day job; no harm no foul. You will need to confirm there is no conflict of interest of course. You can email me at WillCode4Equity a_t FTL d_o_t COM

dorfuss• 13 years ago

I'd like to tackle the issue differently.

I'm in a similar situation but on the other side of the spectrum - I did a degree in cultural anthropology which is neither recognised nor appreciated by the job market, virtually impossible to monetise the skills I learned. Here in my country nobody knows what anthropology is. The only hope for those who want to stay in the "business" is to beg for a lousy scholarship and starve for years doing a PhD and waiting for some old professor to retire and make a room for a young and aspiring researcher (who by the time it happens won't be young anymore).

Still, I've been very lucky compared with my friends from the university. I've got a decent job in a large insurance corporation, doing a little bit of PR and mainly monitoring the work of debt collectors abroad.

Mostly it's a very repetitive, limited, not creative, nine-to-five kind of job, with a very annoying, over-controlling, nosy, bipolar colleague.

I've had enough, although my salary rose by 36% in the last year.

I would like to move abroad, but I am limited by my predominantly soft skills and lack of serious experience (I'm 27). And I'm not a native Englih speaker.

During my studies I was researching new technologies in education and I am very much interested in human-computer interacion, usability and design. I know I cannot compete with so many great wizzard programmers, I am not an alogorithm genius, but I do not intend to be. Nowadays there are so many great software engineers all over the world and the market becames more and more saturated with sophisticated devices I believe it is the client's research which will make the difference and help to turn a good idea into millions.

However, at least here in my country, in order to get into R&D one has to graduade in some computer science related subject.

So next month I am starting a new degree in applied computer science :)

But going back to the core problem of not enjoying your job:

I agree with Arjuna - you should consider relocation. I live just 10 minutes walking away from my office. I pay high rent, but the comfort of life without having to commute anywhere is beyond description. I highly encourage all to consider it.

Secondly - if you are having a problem with a colleague, or with some aspect of what you do, then treat it not as an offence ("the world hates me!") but rather as an intellectual, personal challange ("hmm, it's interesting - why do I react in such a way?"), an opportunity to grow, an excercise that will make you stronger. As others said: there will always be things and people you don't like in your future jobs, but the goal is not to strive for a perfect environment without these problems, but to develop strategies to deal with them.

I hate reporting. But I knew it was something I have to turn into an interesting challange and to learn something new, or it would kill me. Now I must say I make the best reports our clients ever received. In the course of doing so I turned myself into an advanced user of Business Objects, automated the process to the furthest extent and delegated the manual stuff to my colleagues - what in the beginning took at least 2 days of solid work on the reports alone now takes just about 1 hour!

We're young. And I believe everything is possible. If I am able to turn myself into a mediocre computer scientist, working full time and having to pay for my studies, you are able to become whatever you want.

Cheers!

Ask HN: I do not enjoy my job, what to do?

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