The Outrage about PRISM spying is wearing off already

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2043777/the-outrage-about-prism-spying-is-wearing-off-already.html

by Baustin • 13 years ago

96 104 13 years ago

ck22• 13 years ago

The way the average american thinks, if the police slowly came every other day and disappeared one of your neighbors, they'd shrug it off and say "oh well what can you do, we need to be safe".

Until it was their turn and there was no one to protest.

This is why we still have the TSA grabbing your genitals and the NSA grabbing everything else. "oh well what can you do, we need to be safe".

Meanwhile congresspeople would write in exemptions for themselves and figure out how to do insider trading to profit from the activity (btw, they gave themselves back the right to do the insider trading).

regis3• 13 years ago

Whenever I fly I request a hand screening and it seems that more often than not the person screening me is more uncomfortable than I am. In the past I have literally walked a TSA employee through the procedure because he was to shy to touch me like he was "required" to.

It's not only passengers who struggle with this stuff but also the employees of the companies that require this kind of behavior.

eksith• 13 years ago

This was pretty much my experience as well. Also, a lot of the time, these TSA folks were just kids. I wouldn't be surprised if most of them are still barely out of high school.

MattBearman• 13 years ago

I flew out of Newark twice last month, and both times I was the only person who requested a hand screening, and both times the TSA employee doing the screening just seemed pissed off with me for making them do it.

It does seem that sadly most people will just accept what ever ridiculous rules are forced upon them,

AndyKelley• 13 years ago

I request a hand screening every time I fly as well. But I don't kid myself into thinking I'm effecting change.

INTPenis• 13 years ago

This and also never forget that on a global scale we are all living in the very upscale parts of the metropolis.

Of all those sci-fi stories I've read where there is one major oppressive force with their boot on a smaller oppressed group, WE ARE THAT BIG TOTALITARIAN NATION!

I'm saying we as in, we in the over-developed world. I'm personally a slav living in Sweden.

diminoten7• 13 years ago

The problem with the NSA outrage is that it's about what the NSA could do with the data, not what they have done.

The abuse of power is mostly theoretical at this point, and until we see confirmation that the NSA is using their knowledge of people for evil, it's all just speculation.

The privacy violations are simply not enough for people to care, and I'm not 100% sure they're wrong.

Goladus• 13 years ago

This is all true, but it still doesn't mean the problem shouldn't be addressed.

And yes, the outrage is going to die down somewhat, the question then becomes how much is the media going to sell out their principles? Most people have to go back to their lives. But for journalists, it's their job to report on this sort of thing.

Are they going to continue hammering for answers? Are they going to continue to report on whether anything has been done about secret warrants and the FISA court?

Or are they going to give up at the first sign of fickleness in their audience and cater to their whimsy? Are they going to skip writing an article about the issue and instead write a meta-article about how people are no longer outraged about the issue?

LoganCale6• 13 years ago

If they are collecting and storing everyone's data, it will be abused. It's only a matter of time and gradually weaker requirements for accessing it.

It needs to be stopped now before they can abuse it.

thetabyte2• 13 years ago

"First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me."

-- Martin Niemöller, 1946

rdouble2• 13 years ago

Then they came for the basement dwelling nerd, validating his entire existence.

rumcajz• 13 years ago

In many ways it resembles the story of Weimar republic and Hitler's ascension to power. There have been of lot of speculation about why that may have happened, what kind of social forces have made the population behave in a way that ultimately harmed everyone etc. but there was no way to test it experimentally.

Now there's a window of opportunity for social scientists to test the hypotheses and maybe even find out what's really going on in these kind of situations.

goostavos• 13 years ago

"oh well what can you do, we need to be safe".

I think that's a touch of a generalization. I'm a guy that flies 4+ times a month, and I'm on a team of people who keep the same travel schedules. Not once has anyone I've ever known mentioned "safety" when the subject of TSA, or any invasive government program, comes up.

No, the thing that we're scared of is not some vague notion of a terrorism, but being caught up in some power tripping TSA agents wet dream. You get groped because the alternative is causing a scene, getting detained, missing my flight, and thus missing out on the job which was my entire reason for entering the awful airport in the first place. A missed job means that there's no repeat next year, which puts my line of work and lively hood in jeopardy. Is it exciting? No. But it's reality.

Talk of standing up to "the man" is easy, but action is several orders of magnitude harder. I have student loans, I have an apartment and family which would go under if not for my income. Things really aren't bad enough yet to put all of that on the line. So you go through "security," get your balls groped because it's better than the alternative, and you press on.

I suspect that there are more like me than there are mindless "Gotta catch the terrorists at any cost!" people. Things would have to get much worse and actually tip the balance to where it makes sense to fight before I actually will.

Don't think of us all as terrorist fearing surrender monkeys.

LoganCale6• 13 years ago

I don't, and won't, fly for as long as the TSA gropes and scans people. That limits my rapid travel abilities and has prevented me from doing certain things, but I would rather maintain my principles on that matter. Does it actually do anything? Probably not. Nonetheless, I refuse to ever subject myself to such treatment.

tzs2• 13 years ago

(btw, they gave themselves back the right to do the insider trading)

I've seen that claimed with regard to the amendment passed to the STOCK Act a few months ago, but those claims were wrong. Is there some other change I missed?

ck22• 13 years ago

They removed the disclosure requirement so it's impossible to find out who is doing what, so it's impossible enforce.

http://nyulocal.com/national/2013/04/15/congress-quietly-rep...

They are really good at loopholes for themselves, really good.

pearjuice2• 13 years ago

Like any other outrage in the past few decades. We have become soft and there is nothing you can do about it. Instead of writing intellectual comments on the matter, we should go down the street, burn some tires, overthrow the government; stuff like that. Yet here I am,thinking that no one will be brave enough to initialize or follow me if I would. They made us soft and we obeyed. Don't tell me there is a civilized road to solving this because the stakes are way too high for anyone to turn in what we have become.

astrodust5• 13 years ago

Americans don't know outrage. They've been trained from a young age to be apathetic and those that have the audacity to fight back have been systematically beaten down.

When's the last time they've had to mobilize the National Guard because there was a protest?

The entire American economy could collapse because of a giant banking scandal and people wouldn't even raise a fist in anger.

pearjuice2• 13 years ago

The best part being these downvotes only proving the point.

jakejake• 13 years ago

I don't think it's that we're not capable of getting angry or taking action. It's just that nobody can be bothered to do anything until something directly affects them.

The effects of PRISM are easy to ignore for most people because its not easily visible. On top of that many people actually accept it because they feel its a necessary trade off for security.

Add all that up with the fact that we get bored easily and that's how politicians are able to do just about anything they want. They just have to be a little more patient than the public.

rayiner8• 13 years ago

Americans don't know outrage.

Americans have never experienced anything really worth being outraged about, at least not the current generation of people.

JonFish855• 13 years ago

In the USA, there's a chance to completely revamp the government (well, Executive and Legislative branches, anyways) every 6 years. No anarchy required.

DamnYuppie3• 13 years ago

That is a pipe dream they sell to keep people compliant. It costs a lot of money to run a campaign. Oddly enough we have these weird rules where the fund raising entities can hide where the money is originally coming from. Most likely because both parties are being funded by the same source, the whole two party system is a fraud that is used to keep people docile with the illusion of choice. Under the current system we have no choice, the whole thing needs to be torn down and rebuilt....

rayiner8• 13 years ago

The NSA is collecting information; nerds rage at how the U.S. has become a third world dictatorship; lawyers argue about whether it's legal or not; the average American rightly realizes that nothing has happened that is worth burning tires and trying to overthrow the government over.

There is no civilized way to overthrow a government that no longer has the interests of its people at heart. Luckily, we don't live under such a government. At worst we have a bunch of misguided old people that don't realize that the internet is much more valuable to younger people than just the tool for commerce they perceive it as. At the end of the day, the kind of liberties that average Americans care about, the kind that affects the lives of Americans directly: being able to own guns, being able to get abortions, being able to belong to religious groups, however mainstream or wacky, being able to criticize the government, etc, are strongly in place. And despite the recession, Americans still enjoy among the highest standards of living of any large liberal democracy on the planet. Few Americans would trade places with someone in Spain or Italy, or the UK (with its oppressive laws re: speech and guns) for that matter.

Homunculiheaded• 13 years ago

It’s not simply apathy, and personally I think one of the most dangerous things is for American’s to blame ourselves for lack of change when the system is pretty much designed to minimize civil unrest.

The biggest issue is simply comfort. Most HNers work for pretty cool companies, but even then how many would face repercussions if they took the day off to burn tires in the street? Also this type of serious protest you discuss does happen for just a day, but maybe weeks (or longer). Many HNers would definitely face employment concerns if they took weeks off to protest, and most people outside the tech community would be fired/seriously repremanded as the employer/employee balance of power is extremely imbalanced right now.

The surveillance state is, imho, one of the greatest existential threats to individual freedom in the history of the US, but for anyone looking at the risk calculus it’s still a future threat: today you have tons of food, entertainment, a place to live and most people don’t actually feel the affects of the shrinking limitations on freedom (in fact the only people who do are those who are fighting against this changes, another point in favor of not protesting from the pov of risk).

So the calculus of pleasure means for most people protest is more painful than the current state of things. But there’s also the pain factor. Most Americans are aware of the incarceration rate of the US. We’re also aware of the terrible conditions in US prisons. We know the fate that became Manning, can only imagine what will happen to Snowden and under the current administration US citizens have even been targeted for assassination (no due process involved). Not only is there a threat of reduced pleasure to consider, you really, really don’t want to face punishment at the hands of the US government.

Finally there’s the completely uninteresting but real problem of geolocation: The US is a huge country, where are we going to meet? Even in DC today most protester are actually hired to protest, they aren’t concerned citizens but paid by a group of concerned citizens to protest in a formulaic and safe way.

Assaults on American freedoms are being extracted in such a brilliant way that pleasure/pain calculus won’t sway in favor of massive protest and unrest until the government has such power that such protests can be squashed before their inception (this is exactly why the surveillance state is so dangerous).

But please don’t turn your anger inward or towards other Americans: learn about tools that can fight the surveillance state (legal and technical), start small community discussion about these topics, and continue to fund organizations that are fighting for your rights in these domain. And yes keep being angry on HN, everyone who up or down votes your comment at least has to think about what is being said.

oftenwrong2• 13 years ago

I don't think Americans are soft; I think they know that the odds aren't in their favour. America is a massive country, so it is hard to reach critical mass - the point at which people feel they can go out and "raise hell" without simply getting arrested/killed because their group is too small and lacking in support. For example, the Restore The Fourth protests were extremely tiny. They barely made a blip in international news, which tends to feature happenings in the US prominently. An uprising of that size would be extinguished almost immediately if it became violent or destructive. However, if the streets were filled with angry protesters, to the point where local police might not be able to handle it, then people would more open to revolutionary action. At a certain point, people will recognize the risk/reward balance is in their favor, but right now it is not anywhere close. I think you can blame the fact that Americans have fairly comfortable lives. If Americans were going hungry, it would be different.

mathattack• 13 years ago

I think privacy is already gone. I remember Geraldo Rivera going on a "Privacy is gone forever" rant after 9/11, and I was ashamed to admit that I actually agreed with him.

LoganCale6• 13 years ago

There is a follow up protest to Restore the 4th, 1984 Day, planned for this upcoming Sunday, August 4. If there is one being held near you, please consider attending. Keep checking if there isn't one nearby, as they have been adding a few more locations in the past day.

http://1984day.com/

jamesbritt• 13 years ago

Do all of these rallies insist on using Facebook for organizing their privacy protests?

The irony is stunning.

LoganCale6• 13 years ago

Yeah, I find it stupid as well. I have the Facebook domain blocked at the /etc/hosts level and generally won't go there, period.

rambojohnson• 13 years ago

says "PC World" ...

JonSkeptic• 13 years ago

It's not surprising. The Zimmerman trial was an excellent distraction to get everyone's mind off of privacy and on to racial divisiveness. Now that the trial's long over, all that NSA stuff seems so distant in the memory of the average American. It was a brilliant move by the administration.

JonFish855• 13 years ago

Are you saying the Obama administration set up the Zimmerman trial just to distract people from the NSA stuff?

smky80• 13 years ago

No, the people who tell the Obama administration what to do, told the media to make a circus out of the case.

astine• 13 years ago

It's highly unlikely that anything about the Zimmerman trial was a deliberate ploy to distract the American public from more pressing issues but... The president did explicitly weigh in on the trial which gave it more notoriety in the press. It's not impossible that he was hoping it would distract from the NSA issue.

More likely though, there are just more people for whom race relations is a bigger deal than government spying.

VladRussian2• 13 years ago

denial, anger, bargaining, depression, accpetance

northwest4• 13 years ago

"[...] the ten most searched terms, according to Google Trends, were: iOS7, PS4, Tim Tebow, Mac Pro, Kingdom Hearts, Miami Heat, IGN, Chad Johnson, NBA Playoffs, and the Apple Worldwide Developers Conference ( WWDC)."

Probably the most important cause of this is the fact that the mass media are tightly controlled by a couple of extremely rich people. And they don't like change as they fear the loss of power. The current system works very much in their favor.

Free and unbiased media is the basis for democracy.

JonFish855• 13 years ago

Another way to look at it would be to say that people care about things that directly affect them. The NSA stuff isn't something that really affects anyone's day-to-day life, whereas in the US there are just HUGE portions of the country that play PS4, watch sports, buy phones, etc. No conspiracy theory necessary.

northwest4• 13 years ago

No conspiracy theory necessary.

This is a saddening statement. What I'm saying has nothing to do with conspiracy. (When I say "controlled by a couple of extremely rich people", "a couple" might even be "a few hundred", but that's still "a couple".)

00rion2• 13 years ago

The Zimmerman trial isn't something that affects everyone's day-to-day life, but the media chose to focus on it. Imagine what would happen if the media had instead focused on the NSA scandal. If that were to happen, things would change very quickly.

regis3• 13 years ago

I am still outraged but I don't know what to do about it. I don't think the restore the 4th/1984 day stuff is the right way to go about it. That is a great way to spread a message but has about a 0% chance of shutting down the NSA etc...

This stuff has recently caused me to fall into a bit of depression because I feel totally helpless.

Does anyone else feel this way? What could we do?

verandaguy• 13 years ago

The distressing part about all this is that there is, in fact, very little to be done about this. For now, the best thing anyone can do is to keep the issue from dying. Raise awareness. Find reliable data to back up claims against PRISM and XKeyscore (data of which, I'm sure there are respectable amounts). The more people know, the more can be done about the issue. Protests, speeches, walkouts, boycotts, and, should worse come to worse, riots can be organized. Maybe more people working on the projects can be convinced to defect or sabotage the project.

Just fight to keep this relevant.

regis3• 13 years ago

Definitely.... However, I have been working to keeping this subject alive but at a certain point people don't want to hear it and even more disturbingly I've found that many people don't think that our government would really do something like that even after reading about it.

00rion2• 13 years ago

Organize ourselves. The people need a way to influence the government more. We can do this through collecting money for specific causes and deciding, as a group, how best to influence politics, be it through billboard advertisements that shame particular representatives into acting in the interests of their constituents or by funding lobbyists to meet with congressmen etc. We need better tools to act as groups.

jmccree• 13 years ago

Until the NSA issue actually has an effect on the every day lives of the american population, it's going to be hard to get much support, when there are issues will actually make a difference in people's lives. We, the hackers and geeks, all see the frightening potential for abuse, but as it is now... the NSA does not make one bit of difference in the life of the average american. Taxes, health care, gun control, immigration, minimum wage, etc.. These are issues that will (or people feel will) have an impact in their day to day life.

Furthermore, as a political issue, it's actually a problem that this is not a partisan issue. In the current polarized political climate, what politician wants to be seen working with the enemy? The democrats can't go after the spying as it's their party and president who are currently doing it. The republicans can't go against it as they originally started it and are the tough on terrorism party. When it comes to the NSA, the political machine is attempting to divide by zero.

oftenwrong2• 13 years ago

What you need is more people outraged and willing to make a stand. Lives will have to be less comfortable in the US before that happens on a large enough scale. The harder the average citizen must struggle for survival, the more likely you are to hit the breaking point. You are trying to come up with a way to improve your situation, but that may require worsening the situation for others. The US government knows this, which is why they always work to keep the proles happy and complacent.

rorrr2• 13 years ago

Outrage is useless. Protests won't stop shit. Did they stop the wars? Nope.

It's what you do with that situation is important.

I'd say an independent party should use privacy as an opportunity, a platform, name the responsible for the spying. Name the politicians who voted for it, name the judges to let it happen.

Another good thing that will come out of it is the awareness of the encryption. More people will start using it. Assuming NSA doesn't have a magical anti-crypto algorithms, and it's a pretty solid assumption, NSA can spend trillions of dollars on hardware and still not be able to decrypt just one message.

northwest4• 13 years ago

Outrage is useless. Protests won't stop shit.

I don't see it that way, b/c this is just 1 out of tons of measures that will be needed. Each measure will stimulate other measures, it's an interactive thing.

codersquare• 13 years ago

i haven't lived in America long enough, I'm Asian. I lived in Australia for long enough to know what democracy feels like, at least on the surface.

But this incident is really something that I can't comprehend. What's happening to all those crouching potential heroes in American movies? The only hero I've seen so far is Snowden. Where have all those American brave cowboys gone? Where has the American dream gone? The dream of liberty, freedom, of a Fair country?

Haven't lived in America myself, but from the self-confident, open-minded Americans I met, from Hollywood movies, I just can't understand why people are kinda OK with this incident. Why are people so tolerant to such a pretty big lie.

hankScorpi0• 13 years ago

Why is this surprising? This happens with every single item of news worth getting up in arms about. You are just seeing the receding area under the bell curve of social interest...

EGreg• 13 years ago

The problem of centralization, and its solution:

http://myownstream.com/blog#2011-05-21

neilk3• 13 years ago

This is from July 7th. Almost a month ago.

Maybe I suffer confirmation bias because I'm following the story, but it seems to be picking up steam to me. A few days ago, the US House of Representatives almost passed a law which would have curtailed the NSA's activities, and now we have the XKeyScore revelations which are still playing out.

From the release of the Pentagon papers, to Nixon's resignation, took three years. The incident which ultimately led to the president's resignation was a side issue, buried in the back pages of the A section, for most of that time.

I'm not sure if the US government is still capable of policing itself in that way. But however it plays out this isn't going to be over in a few weeks.

diminoten7• 13 years ago

Failing to pass the law but coming close to passing the law means literally nothing. That is not a victory.

And have you talked to people outside of the Internet about it? Plenty of people didn't ever care, and are now upset with Snowden for even having leaked what he did.

This is not going to "pick up steam" any more than it already has, short of non-spying related leaks (Obama killed a guy with his laser vision, for example).

neilk3• 13 years ago

I think you're being unnecessarily negative. I like the metaphor Wyden had: "The side of transparency and openness is starting to put some points on the board." All-or-nothing thinking is not helpful.

But you have a point. Snowden didn't come to the public with revelations about how these programs were persecuting anybody in particular. So the objections one might raise are more theoretical, about "turnkey tyranny", or that panoptic surveillance is itself an offense against the people. I have a feeling that if a more specific case came to light, it would change everything.

mpyne• 13 years ago

The Pentagon Papers didn't impact Nixon directly (Nixon was even pleased at first since it could only affect the reputation of his predecessors). But you have a good point, certainly it seems there's finally an awakening in Congress. Even most of those who voted against defunding NSA then sent a letter to the White House saying that some form of changes would still be required.

motters• 13 years ago

Relax. The Party is everything, knows everything. There are no spies, only brave members of the inner committee doing their duty for the empire.

aleprok• 13 years ago

I would right away move from Google, Microsoft, Apple, products if I had good alternatives.

Basically I do not use any Apple products, but Skype is the only Microsoft thing I use.

Duck Duck Go as search engine works, but still I like my personalized search results, they get me faster where I want to go. Though my search results should be secure and not spied upon. Duck Duck Go is also missing image search and some other problems like 25 Mb / 25 MB does not give me 0.125, but instead Provincial Trunk Highway 25, Brandon, Manitoba

Then comes the problem of phone operation systems. Ubuntu Unity, Firefox OS could be nice, but they are long way to come here. Only mobile operation system options for me are iOS, Android or that damn Windows currently.

It's pretty damn hard to stop using Facebook, Google+ or Twitter just for the reason of spying, because everyone of your friends is in one of them.

If I decide to stop using these systems where I can be spied upon I most likely will lose ability to contact most of my friends who are not technically skilled to use something like torchat or does not care that much to learn to use it.

If I leave these systems I can no longer easily inform my friends about the dangers of the systems they are using.

Thing is walled gardens are walled gardens and they are hard to compete with. Do I wait that people create better and secure services or go offline and never come back?

arh68• 13 years ago

Wow, what a crap article. I've got a more to-the-point headline, if Mr. Vaughan-Nichols has trouble coming up with another: "World Doesn't Stop On A Dime To Fix Problems: Must Mean Nobody Cares". Classic spin-down.

mladenkovacevic• 13 years ago

For the average citizen it's all about reward and risk. A large population of the US is middle class and the risk of being detained, alienated or whatnot is far greater than the reward of complete liberty. And besides the surface illusion of liberty seems to be doing an alright job anyways.

Now if the majority of US population sinks into poverty then the elite will have something to worry about. A far more likely scenario for the near future is that smaller countries become affected by citizen outrage, at which point they cut US political and economic influence out of their governments' decisions. You know how America imposes sanctions on Cuba? Well imagine that a large portion of the world imposes sanctions on the US. That might have some meaningful effect although an ongoing relationship with China alone might be enough to keep the US going for a while.

rasur• 13 years ago

*The Outrage in the USA about PRISM spying is wearing off already.

The rest of the world however..

tehwalrus• 13 years ago

Elected officials don't have a reason to action any concern unless you're willing to change your vote over it (indeed, if lots of people are willing to change all their votes over it.)[1]

Something like PRISM doesn't even get the requisite majority support (well, it does for email, not for phone records), let alone high enough priority to make people vote for some third "privacy party" candidate in the next presidential election, or to vote out legislators based on their support for it. It doesn't stand a chance of being changed.

(except by a ruling that it breaches the 4th, which is rather unlikely, sadly.)

[1] example from the UK; leaving the EU (most people would say yes, but wouldn't change their vote over it). House of Lords reform, too. If we ever get a referendum on either, boom!

wonderzombie• 13 years ago

Most people in the US probably assume that:

* the agencies performing surveillance by and large have good intentions

* surveillance has or will have no practical impact on their lives, because

* they're not doing anything wrong, so they're probably fine, and anyway

* they can't really do anything about it.

As for the first, it reminds me of this Onion article: "Smart, Qualified People Behind The Scenes Keeping America Safe: 'We Don't Exist'"[0]. We have ordinary people, people with flaws and cognitive biases. They're hyper-sensitized to threats, convinced we're all in imminent danger unless we institute mass surveillance For Our Own Good. This is essentially a flawed premise (the road to hell, etc).

The second is more or less correct. It makes no difference in one's daily life.

In the third, I chose the word "wrong" deliberately. Most people incorrectly assume they've not done anything illegal, but most people don't have nefarious plans and therefore assume they've nothing to worry about.

The third is also more or less correct, but it's a flawed premise that you, personally, have to be able to do something about it.

I really think more people should be educated along the lines of "Don't Talk to the Cops"[1]. Even if you have no nefarious plans, the justice system's incentives are all aligned against you; they want convictions, not the truth. The adversarial nature of the system is predicated on you not being thoughtlessly compliant.

[0] http://www.theonion.com/articles/smart-qualified-people-behi... [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik.

edited: formatting. wish I knew how to do bulleted lists.

null_ptr• 13 years ago

"There's some hard evidence that all this privacy stuff just doesn't alarm us all that much."

I wish all these articles would stop the reinforcement of apathy in every spying article's opening paragraph. It sets the tone for the entire piece.

hoggle• 13 years ago

FYI this entry was just still among the top 30 stories on HN and is currently listed at #169. Can somebody explain this please?

GhotiFish• 13 years ago

  But do you really care? Or are you more like my dogs, who 
  can be distracted at any moment by a rustling in the 
  leaves. "Oh, look, a squirrel!" their alert little faces 
  seem to say.

mmm hmm... Is all Stevens work this misdirected?

tshtf• 13 years ago

Not sure why this article has been flagged, but here's an anecdotal counterpoint. I run a public XMPP server listed on [1], and since the PRISM revelations the number of new user registrations has increased significantly. I've seen no sign so far of a downturn in new registrations.

[1] http://xmpp.net/

The Outrage about PRISM spying is wearing off already

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