How EverTrue Hired Their First H-1B Visa Employee

http://venturefizz.com/blog/living-%E2%80%9Chai-life%E2%80%9D-%E2%80%93-evertrue%E2%80%99s-first-h-1b-visa#.UfurtOj4atg.hackernews

by venturefizz • 13 years ago

21 65 13 years ago

venturefizz.com

kenjagi• 13 years ago

And there you have a step-by-step blueprint on how to undermine the efforts of local talent pools to stand out in favor of saving tens of thousands of dollars and hire an H-1B.

manishsharan4• 13 years ago

I would argue that this is adding to the local talent pool. And where did you get the idea that you save " saving tens of thousands of dollars " by hiring an H-1B ? I originally came to US on H-1B and I can assure you that within months I was among highest paid developers in my company; anything less and I would have walked nextdoor to my next job.

CaveTech• 13 years ago

Would be quite the risky move. You have no guarantee that you'll be granted a new Visa, and if you don't get it then you'll quickly be on your flight home.

This can easily be used as leverage against an H1-B Visa holder in most situations.

wavefunction3• 13 years ago

How does it add to the local talent pool? The visa is given to the company, not the programmer, so it's not like the programmer can suddenly work for another local company.

I'm interested to hear your argument about adding to the local talent pool and how you would have just "walked next door" unless the next company had an open h1b position.

auctiontheory• 13 years ago

Where does it say that the author set out to (or did) "undermine the efforts of local talent pools"?

From the pic, it appears to be an otherwise lily-white company. Presumably if they had found the right domestic hire, they would have made it, rather than jump through all H-1B hoops described. He must have been a lot better than their other options.

If this hire pushes local talent pools to work hard and do better, isn't that a good thing? If local talent pools expect to get through life on their trust fund, or get a job simply because they're white and US-born, that's not a formula for long-term success (for the country).

pavanky3• 13 years ago

The idea that H-1B workers are paid less is idiotic. Especially if the employee is from Harvard.

You may be saving tens of thousands of dollars if you outsource the job, but hiring an employee to work in the USA is different.

hga• 13 years ago

I can say at least anecdotaly it's true. One of my coworkers at Lucent in 2001 was a brilliant Jamaican EE, doing his masters at the same time (had his own MOSIS chip to show off :-), and was arguably better at the job than I was, or at least equal given our various specialties.

As mentioned elsewhere, his salary was posted on the bulletin board. It was $48K at the same time I was being paid $80K. $32,000 fits my definition of "tens of thousands of dollars".

zpk8• 13 years ago

No its not idiotic, its the truth. There's an entire business model based on the margin. Maybe you heard of one of those companies, Wipro much, Tata much, Infosys much?

eshvk8• 13 years ago

1. H1B salaries are supposed to be competitive and typically posted in your workplace. So you can figure out if you are being undercut by the dirty immigrant coming in.

2. A huge percentage of H1B engineers you will probably interact with went to school here, typically with Masters degrees etc. So I am not convinced their talents as far as writing ruby/$foo language applications are any worse than an equivalent undergrad. In the bay area at least, the term local is a farce. A majority of citizens move here from the rest of the country. As far as a native is concerned, we are all techies driving up the market.

Of course, I think the H1B is exploitative in other ways than money. It is indentured labor. I may pay Johnny American and the immigrant the same salaries, but the immigrant once fired needs to find a job the next day or is out of status. The American can go on unemployment etc. The two weeks when my company decided to dither on whether they wanted to layoff people or not was stressful for all. However, the immigrants were the ones who had to decide whether to pack their bags after spending 4-5 years building roots in this country.

Also, sure a huge percentage of H1Bs are utilized by software shops based offshore to bring people here on short term projects. This is startup world though. How much of your work are you going to outsource to India?

tzm2• 13 years ago

Rather presumptuous to assume the employer is saving "tens of thousands of dollars" by hiring H-1B. Hiring top talent usually means you hire people smart enough to know the difference. Employers pay market rate. If they don't, then there must be some other consideration at play.

We live in a global economy.

levosmetalo2• 13 years ago

Yeah, those dirty immigrant bastards that pay US taxes in the highest rate and don't have any tax allowances. Those spoiled brats whose wives can't legally work. But they are lucky to be allowed to work 80-100 hours a week in order to keep their job and visa status, and to pack up the next day if they get fired.

Yeah, you should disallow that. If you push them out, then Joe SixPack would be able to make much more money for writing JS and Ruby code and bring US economy forward.

zpk8• 13 years ago

"But they are lucky to be allowed to work 80-100 hours a week in order to keep their job and visa status, and to pack up the next day if they get fired."

Wow so off base its funny, that's the blanking problem.

thetrumanshow• 13 years ago

I'm always amazed at the vitrol that comes from the people in the Pro-H1B denomination. You guys sometimes make the Protectionist denomination seem quaint.

1) You SHOULD disallow that. Why tolerate a system that creates incentives for that kind of abuse.

2) "dirty immigrant bastards" - You're assigning a point of view that the commenter isn't advocating at all. Protectionism is generally more about looking into the future and being scared for your ability to continue at your standard of living and less about disliking certain kinds of people.

And to add my own anecdote to this discussion without siding with anyone else's viewpoint (because I'm a special snowflake with my own nuanced opinions): I've worked at companies that chronically underpay H1B workers. The ones that got fair pay were the ones that were brave enough to demand it.

refurb• 13 years ago

Why would H1-B holders not get any tax allowances? From what I know, the IRS doesn't view citizens and non-citizens any differently from a tax rate perspective.

bassboyanon• 13 years ago

This is not true at all.

First of all, it is illegal for a company to pay a H1B employee less than the "standard wage" for the position in question.

But leaving legal issues aside, a large proportion of H1B employees have actually completed their education at some of the top schools in the US and around the world. I have seen many of them quickly rise to the top of their teams and compensated more than many in the "local talent pools".

Disclaimer: I am another early H1B employee at a startup here, and my company has certainly not saved any money by hiring me instead of a citizen. I like to think that the value I brought in has more than compensated for the extra costs.

sheri• 13 years ago

I can't believe this comment is at the top of this thread. Ridiculous.

out in favor of saving tens of thousands of dollars and hire an H-1B.

What evidence do you have that they saved tens of thousands of dollars with an H1B? They spent over 5000$ in legal fees just trying to get the H1B.

eshvk8• 13 years ago

I actually upvoted the comment because this statement comes up again and again. Eventually reasonable arguments float up to the top. My hope is that the responses to the drive-by-attack are read so that people understand how the system works.

gcb03• 13 years ago

h1b here. I get 20-30k year less than my native counterparts. but since it's a big company I'm still in the "salary range for position". If you count my experience and the position i had before, I'm making much less because I'm in a much lower bracket that i would be back home. I know my company spend 10k to sponsor me. Which is peanuts for saying 40k year considering all that.

Also, it's very hard for me to look better pay as a native could do. Even the ones making 10k more than i do already left...

untog4• 13 years ago

I am sick of seeing this posted on HN every time someone discusses H1B visas. I am here on an H1B, and I am absolutely not underpaid. If anyone is underpaid, they are free to transfer their visa to a new employer that will pay them more.

Now, there are shops out there that abuse the system- importing thousands of developers from India and paying them below the market rate. But they are the exception to the rule (and yes, should be shut down) - the company in this post is nothing like that. It's like accusing everyone that takes disability benefit of being a fraud.

MaggieL5• 13 years ago

I wonder exactly what skills this gentleman had that were unobtainable from citizens in the Boston area...

tzm2• 13 years ago

Skills are just one component. Possibly team dynamics, prior knowledge, attitude, passion and intellect played a role. These are characteristics that are hard to find anywhere, not just Boston.

manishsharan4• 13 years ago

He is a bright college kid from Boston area. What more would you want to see ?

MaggieL5• 13 years ago

Well, the H-1B law does identify "college" as being a normal requirement. "Kid" would be age discrimination an a job req, of course.

eshvk8• 13 years ago

Unfortunately, we live in a world where discrimination against someone who doesn't hold the right passport is legitimate. Replacing the word 'citizen' in your statement with 'white', 'straight' or 'men' would automatically destroy any argument there.

MaggieL5• 13 years ago

Maybe. But since the law isn't written that way, that's a straw man.

ojbyrne2• 13 years ago

Unobtainable from _available_ citizens in the Boston area.

MaggieL5• 13 years ago

Very few skills are obtainable from the unavailable.

hpagey2• 13 years ago

Thats what LCA is for. Not for you to decide, USCIS will decide it the candidate is displacing local talent. If they feel it is, H1b will be denied.

MaggieL5• 13 years ago

It's for me to decide if I think the government is "taking care that the laws are faithfully executed", as the Constitution requires of the Executive Branch. Been a lot of questions about that these days.

3minus1• 13 years ago

I'm disturbed by the reactions in this thread. To argue that the US shouldn't allow foreigners to come and work here because it undermines local talent is like saying schools should give out fewer CS degrees because big companies will exploit them to undermine existing talent. It screams narrow-minded selfishness. What are we, a medieval guild?

gcb03• 13 years ago

If we were a medieval guild our work output would be better and we'd live much more comfortably :-)

potatolicious5• 13 years ago

These reactions are extra-funny given HN's propensity to complain about the long arm of the government, state-sanctioned monopolies, artificial restrictions on the free market, suppression of competition, etc.

It seems like some people want the government to GTFO of the way when it benefits them, but cry for government when the free market doesn't tilt things in their favor.

untog4• 13 years ago

"Libertarian until it hurts me"

zpk8• 13 years ago

Here everyone, this is the second "loudest guy in the room".

How EverTrue Hired Their First H-1B Visa Employee

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