Yahoo's 'Dirty Old Man' Shareholders Remind Marissa Mayer She's a Woman

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/technology/2013/06/yahoo-shareholders-meeting-marissa-mayer/66580/

by rpm4321 • 13 years ago

23 55 13 years ago

theatlanticwire.com

mathattack• 13 years ago

And as a shareholder he's effectively on the committee that is her boss. Take two steps forward and one step back.

tbrownaw4• 13 years ago

Meh. 2000 shares would be about... $50k or 1.8e-4%. Somehow I doubt that's enough to really matter.

Uperte• 13 years ago

Old guy tells Marissa she is attractive, feminist writes article about sexism. Nothing to see here, move on.

PavlovsCat10• 13 years ago

Sexism is waved away with euphemisms, which is exciting and stimulating.

Also, if you're not a feminist by 2013, what are you? This stuff was a no-brainer the second it was came up with.

alexjeffrey4• 13 years ago

you may be confusing feminism with the equal rights for women movement. While there's a large crossover and the former certainly tries to pretend to be the latter, there's also an element of male-targeted sexism within the feminist community that would always prevent me from identifying with them. I'm not saying at all that feminism = sexism, but I wouldn't want to back a community that doesn't seem to address these issues.

Crake2• 13 years ago

"Also, if you're not a feminist by 2013, what are you?"

I'm an egalitarian, because I believe in equal rights for all people, not just one biological sex.

Unless you're a cis female, feminism is very hostile to you. Since I am GLBT, I find egalitarianism much more appealing for this reason as well.

johngalt2• 13 years ago

Additionally, if you're anti-slavery you're by definition a Republican. If you don't identify as republican you're automatically pro-slavery. It's 2013, if you're not a republican by now what are you?

billb2112• 13 years ago

I disagree. There was another picture of Marissa Mayer to see.

mikegioia• 13 years ago

I don't understand why asking for a favorite football team is a "gender based question". Women clearly watch football, and TBH, calling that a gender based question is more demeaning to women than the actual question.

mtoddh3• 13 years ago

I thought this was ironic too. This assumption that only a man would be interested in football, is like a woman going to buy a car and only being shown the vanity mirror, because clearly only a man would interested in the rest of car.

rayiner3• 13 years ago

Imagine you're the CEO of a tech startup, in a meeting with some Wall Street people. You look like Mark Zuckerberg, they're the "captain of the crew team" type Wall Street likes to hire. They ask you: so, what sport did you play in college?

Sometimes questions like that are an attempt at signaling exclusion. The purpose is to remind you that you're different from the group. It's really irrelevant to the quality of the question whether you were actually the school's star track athlete, or instead spent all your time hacking on your computer. It's even irrelevant whether the stereotype is actually true (I don't know if people at tech startups are less likely to have played sports in college than people at investment banks). All that needs to exist is a clear stereotype and for both sides to be aware of the appeal to that stereotype.

rayiner3• 13 years ago

It depends on the context. Questions like that can be used to remind people that they don't have the same background as the other people in the group. For example, a group full of rich people might as someone from a low-income background: "where do you summer?" If you don't think that kind of signaling takes place in the board room, I suggest you read this article: http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-12-13/the-ironman-....

That said, I don't think that particular question is sexist. Football (particularly in the midwest where Mayer hails from), is pretty broadly popular across gender lines to the point where it's not uncommon enough for women to like football that it would be effective in exclusion signaling.

aeorgnoieang• 13 years ago

Good points, but still ... how can anyone escape the trap you mention in your first paragraph if our charges of 'sexism!' always reinforce the existing stereotypes?

shanelja4• 13 years ago

This entire article is an exercise in idiocy, full of loaded comments. This is what actually happens:

Man tells woman she is attractive ... Another woman interprets this as sexism

It might be an inappropriate time to say it, but this is rudeness, not sexism. How often is it that you are talking to someone, anyone, they comment on how attractive you are and you are sorely offended? Never? Because I know from my personal experiences (as a highly privileged cis male of course) that I love being complimented.

If we are to interpret every single unrequested compliment as sexism that feminists will soon find that they are unable to find a boyfriend.

If you want an example of sexism, then here is one, from the very fingers of the feminist news reporter herself: "that she looks like a woman but acts like a man." Why should any woman need to act like a man? In this day and age do we still believe in these traditional gender roles, that only a man can be effective in a leadership position?

And then some victim blaming: "Mayer didn't [...] [goad] the "dirty old man" with some low-cut top or skimpy outfit [...] But, of course, you weren't even wondering that, were you?" No, as a matter of fact, I wasn't. That comment was an unnecessary attempt to read the mind of the reader. At no point did I assume that this respected member of her community would be sat in her shareholders meeting wearing a bikini or a v-neck down to her stomach.

Propaganda, the lot of it.

PavlovsCat10• 13 years ago

While pointing out they have power/money, while the other party has the looks?

That happens a lot, and only ever [edit: usually, 99% like] one way. Even older rich women who hit on me do it more like a young girl would than this dude would.

So, no. If you want idiocy or propaganda, try your own post.

tbrownaw4• 13 years ago

It sounded like his comments followed the format of <why I'm (allowed to be) here> <interesting tidbits about me> <what I wanted to talk about>. The 2000 shares is the first part (which doesn't count as having power/money given how many shares yahoo has); the inappropriate comments are the second part; whatever he goes on to say after (there is something, but I didn't pay attention) is the third part.

I would think that format is typical for public (or semi-public) meetings where anyone who wants to is allowed to present to the group.

mtoddh3• 13 years ago

cis male

cis male? Am I the only one who has no idea what this is?

shanelja4• 13 years ago

It's a term commonly used by feminists and transgender people to describe straight white males.

meddlepal• 13 years ago

I did not have a clue, so I searched on Google... It is apparently the politically or academically correct way to refer to a male who identifies with the male gender identity; see 'cisgender'.

dfxm124• 13 years ago

"Cis" means you identify as the gender you are biologically.

i.e. Pre-op transsexuals would not be "cis".

Cis can refer to both men and women.

Herald_MJ• 13 years ago

A comment doesn't have to cause offence in order to be sexist, just as much as causing offence doesn't make a comment sexist.

The comment is sexist, by "I have 2000 Yahoo shares", he means "I have power over you", and "I'm a dirty old man and you look attractive", could be interpreted as "I don't respect your power over me, you're just a woman and all you can do is be pretty", which is an attempt at debasement.

dfxm124• 13 years ago

The comment is sexist, by "I have 2000 Yahoo shares", he means "I have power over you"

But what does this have to do with gender?

"I'm a dirty old man and you look attractive", could be interpreted as "I don't respect your power over me, you're just a woman and all you can do is be pretty", which is an attempt at debasement.

could be interpreted

One could interpret anything as anything...

rayiner3• 13 years ago

You're ignoring the basic fact that 99% of communication is context. "Hey you're hot" conveys an entirely different message in a bar than it does in a shareholder meeting. In the latter context, it's equivalent to saying: "you might be a high powered executive, but you're still just eye candy to me."

PavlovsCat10• 13 years ago

I like this comment on the blog post:

"Well, if you were a woman at a shareholders meeting, would you comment on the looks (good or bad) of any men on the board, when addressing the board? Pro Tip: These types of comments are inappropriate in that setting."

There is a thing such as "color-blind racism", that is IIRC dismissing race playing a factor when it actually does, either out of lack of awareness or harboured racism. I postulate there is such a thing as "gender-blind sexism", too.

I do think it's scummy, and I do not think putting scummy in quotes is okay, unless it's actually a quote. I furthermore know it is the tip of an iceberg (I don't mean the guy, whom I don't know, I mean society). Therefore I do not feel comfortable about anything other than being blunt, direct, humour- and relentless when it comes to this. This is not just a "remark", and the internet reactions to such topics are not all just trolls, it's indicator of work ahead of us.

lotsofcows• 13 years ago

Really? I'm not sure about eye candy but I find high powered executives intrinsically "hot". Apparently, it's an evolutionary thing...

hownottowrite2• 13 years ago

I skipped the article and went straight to the video. The investor's comment isn't rude. It's sexist.

Sexism isn't about saying something "inappropriate". Sexism is about power and the abuse of gender to assert said power.

Let me break the dynamic down for you:

1. This investor is in a weak position. He is not on the panel and he is a small time shareholder. He's a little nervous.

2. The investor gets his chance to ask a question. He makes a "joke" which reduces the stature of the person to whom he is speaking and elevates his sense of dominance.

3. The laughter in the room adds a little more juice to his ego. That's what this kind of "joke" does.

4. Then, he asks his actual question from a more powerful position.

My guess is that he probably "jokes" with lots of people in this sort of way. Little so-called jokes.

What makes it sexist is that the comments are gender based and really quite offensive if you think it all the way through. What makes it really sad is that this sort of thing happens all the time and women are expected to just "laugh it off".

tbrownaw4• 13 years ago

Sexism is about power and the abuse of gender to assert said power.

The definition I found is: "Prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.". Institutionalized sexism would be necessary in order to be able to assert power via gender, but I don't think this necessarily makes them the same thing?

2. [...] He makes a "joke" which reduces the stature of the person to whom he is speaking and elevates his sense of dominance.

I would have thought it would reduce his own stature ("dirty old man" is not a good thing). Which is something that nervous speakers do seem to do for some reason.

cpdean3• 13 years ago

This story was nearly a year old the day it was posted.

I want to hear about if the dirty old men have shut the hell up or not since then.

prawks• 13 years ago

A very poorly written article. Unfortunate because until now I have enjoyed a lot of The Atlantic's content.

Dude, not even the President of the United States can get away with that kind of thing.

Not to mention it was written to be as link-baity and "controversial" as possible, while making sexist remarks clearly without knowing it.

cpdean3• 13 years ago

"Like any good woman in power [...] she looks like a woman but acts like a man."

Rebecca Greenfield was _so close_ to praising Mayer on her career without completely debasing all female leaders in the world.

DanBC2• 13 years ago

I read that as "Marissa Mayer has been forced to prove, by answering questions about sports, that she is manly enough to run a company. And this is a problem other female leaders have to go through".

I agree that this article is lousy and poorly written.

Yahoo's 'Dirty Old Man' Shareholders Remind Marissa Mayer She's a Woman

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