Tell HN: AT&T added fees on their service; now you can cancel the contract

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5759570

by tzz • 13 years ago

41 19 13 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

AT&T added $0.61 fee on all mobile phone service.

Per the following AT&T contract, now you have an opportunity to cancel your current contract without an early termination fee:

  1.3 Can AT&T Change My Terms And Rates? 

  We may change any terms, conditions, rates, fees, expenses,   
  or charges regarding your Services at any time. We will
  provide you with notice of material changes (other than   
  changes to governmental fees, proportional charges for  
  governmental mandates, roaming rates or administrative 
  charges) either in your monthly bill or separately. You
  understand and agree that State and Federal Universal 
  Service Fees and other governmentally imposed fees, 
  whether or not assessed directly upon you, may be 
  increased based upon the government's or our calculations.
  IF WE INCREASE THE PRICE OF ANY OF THE SERVICES TO WHICH   
  YOU SUBSCRIBE, BEYOND THE LIMITS SET FORTH IN YOUR CUSTOMER 
  SERVICE SUMMARY, OR IF WE MATERIALLY DECREASE THE 
  GEOGRAPHICAL AREA IN WHICH YOUR AIRTIME RATE APPLIES (OTHER 
  THAN A TEMPORARY DECREASE FOR REPAIRS OR MAINTENANCE), 
  WE’LL DISCLOSE THE CHANGE AT LEAST ONE BILLING CYCLE IN 
  ADVANCE (EITHER THROUGH A NOTICE WITH YOUR BILL, A TEXT 
  MESSAGE TO YOUR DEVICE, OR OTHERWISE), 

  AND YOU MAY TERMINATE THIS AGREEMENT WITHOUT PAYING AN EARLY 
  TERMINATION FEE OR RETURNING OR PAYING FOR ANY PROMOTIONAL 
  ITEMS,

  PROVIDED YOUR NOTICE OF TERMINATION IS DELIVERED TO 
  US WITHIN THIRTY (30) DAYS AFTER THE FIRST BILL REFLECTING 
  THE CHANGE

slinkyavenger• 13 years ago

Where is this contract available online?

tzz• 13 years ago

http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/articles-resources/wireles...

dtrizzle3• 13 years ago

I'm trying to find this fee on my bill. My AT&T bill labels every charge with a number. On your bill, is the new charge labeled or numbered?

Edit: I found the notice of the charge. It's on left-middle side of page 2 of my April 2013 bill and is called a Mobility Administrative Fee.

Edit 2: On my May 2013 bill, the charge is labeled #8.

owenfi• 13 years ago

Can I terminated the contract and remain a customer?

runjake• 13 years ago

No, you can't. It is an administrative surcharge, not a service price increase. Thusly, it falls outside the sections you quoted.

What they will do, if you argue the point enough, is credit you the extra amount times the number of months you have left on your contract.

Also, the fee is per line.

dtrizzle3• 13 years ago

I’m an attorney and have been pondering for hours about whether this would permit one to break their contract. Certainly, if the fee was a tax, one couldn’t break their contract since neither party really can control what the government does. But what gets me is that it appears to be a price increase disguised as a tax. Looking at the AT&T additional fees page, it’s clear that this fee essentially covers operating expenses. (ie: regular AT&T business costs). Labeling a price increase as an “administrative fee” or a “surcharge” doesn’t change the legal nature of it. Courts tend to look at what the fee is, not what it’s called. I’m going to do some research on this one.

What if the monthly fee was $100? From a legal standpoint, the amount of the fee doesn't matter. You really don't think we could invoke Section 1.3 of the contract?

Gorbzel2• 13 years ago

IANYL, but I'm not sure I buy the it's an "administrative fee" argument.

First of all, the section that attempts to discount this random $0.61 as a supposed "fee" is discussing whether or not AT&T will provide notice, not whether it constitutes a price increase.

Second, at best, that sentence would mostly seem to be discussing only that AT&T doesn't consider this fee increase material, but that's not necessarily conclusive.

Fact of the matter is that this is an increase in the amount due to the provider for the Service, so without the surcharge directly relating to some change in circumstances regarding the contract, I'd consider 1.3 applicable. AT&T's fees page basically tries to couch the Administrative Fee language in terms of some sort of mandatory obligation that AT&T is paying on behalf of its customers, but it's farcical: AT&T has to pay rents to operate its cell sites, that's the whole reason consumers contracted for the Services in the first place.

Krishopper• 13 years ago

The contract says "administrative charge". My bill says "administrative fee". In the dictionary, there is a difference between a charge and a fee. So to the lawyer -- is there a difference between a charge and a fee? If so, then there's an out.

LarryMade2• 13 years ago

Given reports that AT&T are offering discounts and other enticements for customers not to pursue further attempts at cancelling the contract with this; I would think they are aware it is definitely a price increase.

runlevel1• 13 years ago

Definitions of their numerous and vaguely named charges:

http://att.com/additionalcharges

Here's their explanation of this one in particular:

  The Administrative Fee helps defray certain expenses AT&T
  incurs, including but not limited to: (a) charges AT&T or
  its agents pay to interconnect with other carriers to
  deliver calls from AT&T customers to their customers; and
  (b) charges associated with cell site rents and maintenance.

Edit: Screwed up formatting by trying to post in markdown again.

sofauxboho• 13 years ago

Has anyone successfully canceled their service while under contract without early termination fees via this method?

robflynn• 13 years ago

A person posted a comment on Reddit claiming to have done so: http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1ewszk/att_just_...

I have no first hand experience myself but just happened to read that comment earlier today.

seanalex• 13 years ago

I bought a tablet through T-Mobile with a two year contract at $50 a month. Bad idea, I know. I ended up regretting the monthly plan due to using it primarily at home on a wifi.

After 8 months, I luckily found out that T-Mobile was changing their pricing based on roaming charges. I called them to ask for a cancellation with no ETF. I explained to them that the change of terms is a cost change to how I use the tablet. Through a story of "I use this tablet in remote areas for work...", I was able to get it cancelled. It took two phone calls to make it happen, but I soon found out many others tried but failed to take this approach.

wj• 13 years ago

If I were to try to do this would I need to sign up with another carrier first to keep me number?

SamWhited2• 13 years ago

AT&T's quoting

`(other than changes to governmental fees, proportional charges for governmental mandates, roaming rates or administrative charges)'

at me; still fighting it and will let you know how it goes.

SamWhited2• 13 years ago

After being elevated several levels AT&T esentially flat out told me that it was an adminsistrative fee and that was the end of it; they've claimed someone even higher up will call me back within 24 hours — we'll see.

Gorbzel2• 13 years ago

Yea, I don't expect their random customer service people to give much of a shit. I assume you'd have to notify them in writing that you're terminating the contract per the price change and see if they balk. If they do, they'll force you into arbitration.

I'd oddly consider all of this, as I consider this a ploy to increase their revenue and see who notices plain and simple (as opposed to other contract changes they pull sometimes that might be arguably necessary) but given that I'm still relying on the good ol' 2007 unlimited iPhone contract, I'm hesitant to risk them agreeing with me and terminating the contract so they can modify the unlimited access.

alxndr• 13 years ago

http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1ewszk/att_just_...

Tell HN: AT&T added fees on their service; now you can cancel the contract

Related Stories