I am burning out

https://medium.com/this-happened-to-me/eb7b4584fff7

by saurabh • 13 years ago

34 65 13 years ago

Nursie2• 13 years ago

"And some days, when a weekend passes and I played at the park with my son, helped him in his first programming project on the RaspberryPi, enjoyed a movie at home with my wife and a bright spring Saturday morning at the farmers’ market… but I end that weekend just kicking myself for the code I didn’t finish?"

Did you not just pretty much describe the perfect weekend? I'm not sure you're burning out, I think you're realising what life is really about.

lucian1900• 13 years ago

I always feel bad and lazy for not finishing projects I've been thinking of for a long time, regardless of how nice my weekends are.

I totally understand Calvin.

Nursie2• 13 years ago

I certainly understand to some extent, I'd always like to make more progress on personal projects and side projects and the like, but I don't feel sad when life gets in the way. Hopefully he won't either after a while.

jacquesm7• 13 years ago

> I’m hurt you don’t use my website platform.

> I’m hurt you didn’t use my journal tool.

> I’m hurt (so few of) you use my plugin loading library.

This is entitlement, not burn-out.

mtrimpe4• 13 years ago

Holding your self to unattainably high standards is a common factor in developing a burn-out, so I'd guess that's what's happening here.

girvo2• 13 years ago

Depends. I sort-of understand where he is coming from. Releasing FOSS is generally at least partially ego-driven: we want to write something that people use and love and talk about.

Sure, that's not healthy, but it's also somewhat human nature: we want to be wanted.

And yes, when we are not (either by people not using our libraries, not being able to find a romantic partner, etc.) it hurts. And yes, it could cause burn-out.

So, I disagree that it's "entitlement", or even if it is, I feel it's something a lot of us can understand even outside of programming.

We all want to be wanted. Those that don't are usually quite impressive people.

richo3• 13 years ago

Speaking as the author of a tremendous amount of software noone uses, I found this ridiculous.

Sometimes it does hurt- mainly when you explain why what you're doing is better (or at least attempt to in objective terms) and someone still uses "the big thing". As an ops guy for a big startup, even though I get that it still kinda sucks.

But if it's causing you to feel burnt out you're taking this too seriously.

> Releasing FOSS is generally at least partially ego-driven: we want to write something that people use and love and talk about.

I think this is self regulating. Those projects rarely take off, because there's not enough motivation to be awesome.

The projects that get traction are the ones the author HAS to build to see if it'll even work.

jacquesm7• 13 years ago

> we want to write something that people use and love and talk about.

Then start off with something people are already using and improve that rather than to re-invent the wheel in some interesting way and then to be disappointed when nobody uses your particular wheel.

derrida• 13 years ago

Entitlement to recognition? Everybody should be entitled to that. IDK if you are in the FOSS community but I talk to people who just want to write software that is used for nothing other than some minor recognition from some geeks that matter to them, who want to suicide.

Everybody is entitled to be recognized and respected.

Your comment made me angry that you missed so clearly the likelihood of this person being in a fragile situation. Hey, I have Aspergers too you know, there is no excuse to tell other people how they think they feel. It makes them feel ignored and under recognized. Basic human dignity: you recognize the efforts of others.

I'd say recognition for minor things is the lifeblood of society without money. Everybody is entitled to recognition.

epo• 13 years ago

Don't you start whining too. It is entitlement, not a desire for recognition. No one is disrespecting this guy (so far as we know) they are just ignoring him, just like everyone else in the world spends most of their lives after early childhood, being ignored. If no one uses this guy's software it may be that it is just of no use to them.

And if you write FOSS just to hear the roar of the appreciative crowd then that is your problem all long. Remember the adage to "scratch an itch" whether OR NOT anyone else finds it useful.

notacoward4• 13 years ago

Sometimes it's not even about minor recognition. Sometimes it's about believing that there's really something fundamentally better about the way your app/library solves the problem at hand. It's frustrating to see people continue doing things the "broken" way when a better way has actually been demonstrated and made easily available.

Is everyone who believes that correct? Certainly not, but that's not the point. The point is that sometimes it's about idealism, not ego. People like Jacques might deny others the privilege of reinventing the wheel (even as they gained their own notoriety by exercising that privilege themselves) but that's really how every superior alternative has to start. Linux, HTML/HTTP, every database (SQL or otherwise) of the last twenty years, Hadoop - all are or contain reinvented wheels, and IMO at least one of those suffers by comparison to "reinvented" alternatives. The literal wheel itself has been reinvented a couple of times, from rolling logs to axles and bearings and differentials and aerodynamic shapes designed in wind tunnels.

One man's reinvention is another's creative destruction, and it often has nothing to do with ego. It's not entitlement to feel pain from banging your mind against some mad buggers' walls.

dclowd99012• 13 years ago

You're absolutely right. If being an entrepreneur is creating a product for a need, being a good open source contributor isn't any different (only you're working strictly for the notoriety).

I would suggest to OP to try to find a job where he is encouraged to release things he builds for that product FOSS, so that even if he doesn't find success in the popularity of it, hell, at least it means a lot at his day job and he has some skrill to show for it.

richo3• 13 years ago

Ignoring the self-involvement inherent in the article, if you want to contribute to something big (There's nothing wrong with wanting that sense of "I helped build this"); go contribute to a big FOSS project!

Fix a bug in rails[1] or django[2] (Pretty sure I saw you're a python guy).

Fix some of the hilarious problems with Bower[3] (Saw some js too).

There's an entire world of awesome problems to solve. Go solve them.

[1] https://github.com/rails/rails/issues [2]: https://github.com/django/django/issues [3]: https://github.com/twitter/bower/issues

stefantalpalaru• 13 years ago

Contributing to Django might not be a good idea: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5476431

richo3• 13 years ago

I see your point (and in my view- screw contributing if it means interacting with trac), but reading over that issue it does look like his patch wasn't backwards compatible.

The issue was reopened 5 weeks ago so hopefully it resolves well :/

mattchamb• 13 years ago

I haven't written code outside of work for nearly a year, when it used to be all I did.

I find myself resentful of my company that got us into a death march project that ended months ago.

When I write code, I don't feel any of the passion that I used to feel.

I try to improve the quality of codebase, but always give up in the face of the poorly written mass of code we sell as a product.

I find it hard to care about the product.

I think I am burned out.

Volpe• 13 years ago

Just remember, there is always a worse code base than the one you are working on, and on the flip side no matter how good you make your code base, someone will encounter it, and think it's a "poorly written mass of code".

:-)

xradionut3• 13 years ago

Start working out, networking and improving your resume.

danso• 13 years ago

Creating reusable code is hard and there's no shame in if not everyone needs the same tools you do. Why not put more energy into building content with your development skills? Maybe you'll have more success there

omegote• 13 years ago

Well if you feel burnt out now, you'd have had a really bad time some years ago, when open-source was nothing about web development and more about the GNU/Linux environment.

Nowadays we have github, anyone can link to your Yet-Another-Something library written in javascript and boom, at least you have one user. But in the past there was nothing like that. We'd have to pray for someone to find the download link in our sourceforge project, get to download and compile it.

At the end of the day, however, you have a job, a wife and a son. Unknown people using your open-source software should be the least of your concerns.

Surio4• 13 years ago

I've been through those times, and I think you gave an excellent data counterpoint. :)

>> At the end of the day, however, you have a job, a wife and a son. Unknown people using your open-source software should be the least of your concerns.

++10.

mtrimpe4• 13 years ago

Go get help. If you're in a European country take a few days sick leave and go talk with a doctor.

Burn-out is what happens when

a) you keep pushing yourself, you've approached your limits but want more so keep pushing further

b) you've been operating at your limit for a long time and something happens that multiplies the amount of effort required to get those results (downsizing, personal illness, illness in the family, hostile work atmosphere.)

In general it's about having reached your limits and not accepting them.

If you're afraid about your long term prospects ... it'll actually teach you to work smarter, not harder, possible making you orders of magnitude more efficient.

marvin• 13 years ago

With the fear of stepping on the toes of someone important (and I'm sorry if this is rude, but I'm going to say it), I think it's a disgrace that the top comment to this story is a dismissive remark about how the author is just "feeling entitled" while this excellent piece of health advice is far down the page.

I was burned out/severely depressed at one point, and it's obvious that the author needs to talk to a professional about the way he's coping with stress and expectations. If you're feeling like the author of this blog post, you need to take a good look at your goals in life. I've experienced this myself, and it's a tough situation to be in. Seems like a lot of hacker types are blind to this.

[Edit: Bonus point about your remark about working smarter. I get better results now than when I pushed myself to the beaking point, while using what feels like half the effort. It took some years to get there, though].

gte910h• 13 years ago

Indeed. Many times "burnout" is really depression. Talk do a doctor.

vy8vWJlco• 13 years ago

Links to software at the bottom would have been helpful.

bobbarnes1981• 13 years ago

There is a related site: http://www.ironfroggy.com/projects/index

and a github account: https://github.com/ironfroggy

DigitalSea• 13 years ago

To me being burnt out is feeling like you've been increasingly doing more and more for the same reward. I feel like I am burning out slowly as well, I'll eventually probably have a nervous breakdown but I have no choice but to keep on going to provide an income to my family, I can't stop what I am doing. I have to keep working, keep taking on freelance projects, keep spending time on the computer not because I want too, but because not having money and a crappy life isn't something I want for my family.

We live in an economy where if you're not putting in those extra unpaid hours you're not considered an asset to your employer and you will be disposed of. An economy where 17 old kids can not only flip burgers, they can code and code for a hell of a lot cheaper/are more willing to sleep at work to meet a deadline.

Burning out is when you go to work, come home to freelance, go to work 7 days of the week with inconsistent hours, not getting to spend time with your family, not getting to go to the farmers markets or watch movies with your wife. It's going to bed at 2am working and waking at 6am to go to work, it's feeling like you're constantly working, constantly checking emails all for the same salary.

If your work is comprised of open source, you at least have a way out. Me? I have no way out. I work on my personal projects in between freelancing and my actual job hoping that maybe, just maybe, all of this stress, finishing work at 10pm, having to come in for weekends without being paid extra and work will mean something one day. Hoping that all of this effort will mean that one day I too, can hire multiple people to do the work currently I as one person am doing.

You don't sound burnt out, you sound bitter that nobody is using your work, that's entitlement, not feeling like you're so deep in work you have no way out which is being burnt out. I am sorry to sound so aggressive and angry, but I am burning out and there's nothing I can do about it.

jbrooksuk2• 13 years ago

I can relate to this. Although there is only my fiancee and myself,I still have to provide an income to pay our rent, our bills and do my best to give her the nice things she wants. I'm working a 9-6 job, come home, sit back down and freelance to get more money than my salary brings in, just to pay off our bills. We don't even have anything on finance between us, we live on basics yet we struggle.

Surio4• 13 years ago

Chin up, mate. You're not alone.. Solidarity from a fellow traveller :)

circlefavshape• 13 years ago

> do my best to give her the nice things she wants

Whoa.

She wants you, not "nice things". Neglecting her in order to make money to buy her things is a Very Bad Idea, because you've made yourself fungible

shawabawa3• 13 years ago

There's that old saying: "If you don't value your time, nobody will"

Stop working unpaid overtime. If that gets you fired, so be it, but it's better than working yourself to death.

Your family would rather be poor than not be able to spend time with you

Assuming you're a decent developer you can get another job easily. If you seriously can't afford to not work 18 hours a day for a few weeks, then consider bankruptcy.

Surio4• 13 years ago

You know, I remembered an old saying while reading your comment too: "If wishes were horses, beggars would ride". :)

I don't contest what you say, but getting out of these life situations isn't as easy as you put it either. There's more to it than meets the eye, it's a little more involved than "people should get off their seats and make life changes" and so, the best thing would be to show some human empathy to these people.

Surio4• 13 years ago

^^ This! is reality for a vast majority of people -- IT as well as non-IT

It needs to be said and heard more often. So, thanks for writing it.

anupj• 13 years ago

There is a shloka in Hinduism that might be relevant to this post. As stated in Mahabharata, when Arjun wonders about the futility of his efforts on the battlefields of Kurukshetra, this is what Lord Krishna says to him:

"कर्मण्येवाधिकारस्ते मा फलेषु कदाचन। मा कर्मफलहेतुर्भूर्मा ते संगोऽस्त्वकर्मणि॥"

(You have the right to perform your actions, but you are not entitled to the fruits of the actions. Do not let the fruit be the purpose of your actions, and therefore you won’t be attached to not doing your duty.)

DocG• 13 years ago

take six months off, if you can.

rearrange life, priorities things you like to do. Fuck the other stuff. Say no to people, say no to "must do" things.

Stop coding, building whatever. Help your son, go traveling, read a fantasy book, whatever.

And this is how you avoid burning out and improve your life quality.

Some relatives of mine, in Europe, have taken sick days, up to six months from work stress. They were on verge of burning out. They still got income. Also, employee don't need to know, why are you sick. It is private matter between you and your doctor.

xradionut3• 13 years ago

When I originally saw this posting linked from on another site, I reached out to the author with a constructive comment that he work with other people. Now the comments are not visible.

So is the author wallowing in pity or depression?

As a long time coder, most of my work is no longer in use. Many of my current internal projects at work are only in use by me or a small group of people, enough though they could help hundreds of others (clients, coworkers).

And code is never done. I have dozens of projects in various states of completeness. Even the code in production isn't "truly finished", but it works well enough and has passed review.

I'm going to work on a few other OSS projects that may never be seen by a handful of folks. That's fine. I don't want fame, I like solving problems and helping others.

jacquesm7• 13 years ago

If you are a long time programmer the really depressing thing is that your life's work will probably comfortably fit on a single DVD or even a micro sd card.

xr093• 13 years ago

So all Shakespeare's work and yet is awesome somehow. ;)

navs• 13 years ago

I feel burnt out. I don't write open source software. I just make sites for select clients. I try to make their wacky ideas a reality. But there's no appreciation in it. End of the day you're just another drone. Between this and trying to keep up with the changing tech environment, battling depression and trying to finish my university degree, I've grown to despise computers and related products.

Deciding to leave my computer at work and spend a few days without a computer at home, I've started reading again. I look forward to those free hours where I can be away from a computer and reading a book in bed.

Sometimes it's good to just take a break from the glowing box. I've got a general rule: If I have time to chat on irc, I have time to read a book and relax away from a computer.

xr093• 13 years ago

Your situation calls for a personal project.

xradionut3• 13 years ago

Computers have been my hobby and career for almost 3 decades. Sometimes you need to take a break and do something different.

So here's a small list of activities that have kept me semi-sane through the years: Body building, hiking, reading, gardening, ren fairs, martial arts, shooting sports, cooking, ham radio, traveling, writing, robotics, public service, building, boating and dinner parties.

rtrocc• 13 years ago

"Know one uses much of what I write, and in this community, that fucking hurts."

I can tell your grammar comprehension is starting to burn out already...

ky3• 13 years ago

Grammar doesn't come into this. A phonetic reading renders intended meaning without grammar flaws.

groundCode• 13 years ago

Please, please, please get someone to sub-edit medium. This is not a quality piece of writing.

kjhughes• 13 years ago

A different context may prove to be more satisfying to you. Rather than working harder and harder on providing software to what you currently see as the ideal group to use your efforts, try targeting a completely different group. There are those who would appreciate your talent and even be amazed at what you can do. Consider helping them rather than pushing your current boulder up yet another hill.

harel• 13 years ago

It comes down to why you code. There are more website/journal platforms that I can count (Sesame Street didn't prepare me for large numbers). There are even more libraries for various languages. There are more open source projects out there than there are coding fingers. There are more hurt feelings related to those projects than there are content ones. If you're coding so that people will use it, get ready for disappointment. Even if your's is the best tool of its kind, adoption has a very high luck/right place/right time factor to it.

ak39• 13 years ago

Value propositions battling it out here. I don't know if the OP is an entrepreneur or not, but bartering time and skills for an ego payoff is not healthy. I could never fully appreciate this about talented folks sacrificing their time with families to do open source projects (if it was not for the learning experience). I can see how an ego trip reason quickly turns into the sort of burnout he talks of.

If he's an entrepreneur then it's even more dire than burnout. His business is most likely in trouble too.

Entrepreneurs have to walk a fine line between being local optimisers or opportunity creators. Unfortunately, many technical entrepreneurs find it comforting to hunker down and code within strict given parameters - often ignoring the bigger picture with questions like "is it worth it?". As long as geeks are given a problem to solve, they remain focused. This is deadly if you're the geek running your own business.

Heck, even if you're not an entrepreneur, it's always good to ask the "is it worth it" questions regularly.

dclowd99012• 13 years ago

When it comes to being popular in our community, it's a race to the bottom, where the bottom is living alone with nothing depending on you for its survival.

Once I realized that, I stopped worrying and just decided to build stuff for me. And if anyone else wanted it, neat.

xr093• 13 years ago

Damn, you sure have some ego boy, I write lots of crap but I wouldn't consider all of it to be worth it of being used by the crowd, some of it may get to the masses but that is a delicate process of FOSS-Darwinian selection, you can't rush it.

quaffapint• 13 years ago

While it might be nice to be the next wordpress or jquery, if the sole reason you develop is for the 'glory' of course you're going to end up where you are. If you don't find it as a nice way to relax and solve the puzzle, then what's the point?

Like the other comment mentioned, go be with your family and find a hobby that you actually want to do and not worry about what some other random person does or does not do.

natecavanaugh• 13 years ago

Perhaps he is doing all of this work with the wrong goal in mind. If you start out building something for other people, you're always going to gamble that other people may not need it.

But if you're building tools for yourself, and documenting for yourself, because you have an actual need for these things, then regardless of what others do with them, you'll be happy because you have tools that make your life easier.

Do the bare minimum for yourself that makes your life easier. If other people want to use it, then start building from there. But don't kill yourself trying to build stuff you think will stroke your ego. Programming is probably the worst tool you could use to solve that problem ;)

I am burning out

Related Stories