Ask HN: Is GNUstep dead?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5533065

by kunai • 13 years ago

10 10 13 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

Hello everyone;

I code in Java quite a bit, but I was researching other cross-platform solutions, such as Mono and the GNUstep runtime.

GNUstep got me really curious. It's Cocoa, but open-source and fully cross-platform. Objective-C is elegant, simple, and a full subset of C, so why hasn't there been more uptake? Sure, it isn't very pretty, so to speak -- but you can make it pretty if you want it to be.

Why don't more people work on the project? It really does have potential.

prg3182• 13 years ago

For those that are unaware: http://www.gnustep.org/

I think libraries like Qt and GTK get a lot more development bandwidth because there are popular desktops built on top of them (KDE and GNOME, respectively). With the growing popularity of QT dev on desktop and mobile, GNUstep may just dying out because the other toolkits are much more popular at this point.

If you take a look at the software index (http://www.gnustep.org/softwareindex/) there don't seem to be a lot of existing applications. It's somewhat difficult to want to develop with a widget toolkit that you have not used first-hand.

soapdog• 13 years ago

I don't know if it is dead or not but I am sure it does not include the cocoa framework. IIRC GNUStep has application kit and foundation kit and other framework for UI but I am positive it is not cocoa.

It always had great potential but unless the client has the gnustep stuff installed, your app won't run. Like Mac OS X, GNUStep depends on some bits on the destination machine. (I may be wrong on this, it has been so many years...)

prg3182• 13 years ago

I don't see why a GNUstep application couldn't statically link the GNUstep libraries and include them in the application distribution.

chc• 13 years ago

Cocoa is just an umbrella framework for Foundation, AppKit and Core Data. It has nothing of its own. Literally, this is the entirety of Cocoa.h:

  #import <Foundation/Foundation.h>
  #import <AppKit/AppKit.h>
  #import <CoreData/CoreData.h>

salahxanadu• 13 years ago

I think the potential is huge but as of yet unrealized.

Gnustep seems to want to make Openstep again with 'Project Builder' and 'Interface Builder' but do they have tools to cross-compile for multiple platforms? I don't think so. That would break it open, compile fat binaries for any linux, windows, mac or (linux-based) phone.

Xcode is very nice IDE and I use it daily. Having .xcodeproj support in GnuStep so you can just port over an existing os x/iOS app would be key.

zodman• 13 years ago

it is not dead...

http://etoileos.com/etoile/

kunai2• 13 years ago

The last post was in August of 2012, the last release was a year ago, and the project is still nowhere near close to completion.

It's not dead, but if it still doesn't have enough developers and hackers on board, it will be. Very soon.

runjake2• 13 years ago

> so why hasn't there been more uptake?

Because generally, those of us who are interested in that sort of thing just use OS X.

> but you can make it pretty if you want it to be.

I theoretically could, for a short amount of time. But Cocoa is largely developed in private by Apple.

It still sees substantial changes and additions that get flung upon us every year. Hopefully those changes could get implemented before the next June WWDC, but there aren't enough people interested in doing so.

> Why don't more people work on the project?

Again, because those people just use OS X.

In order to be successful, I think GNUstep would have to grow on its own merits, similar to how Mono has grown, with its own popular frameworks and technologies beyond just tracking Microsoft .NET. Mono also has the advantage of using C#, which is more familiar to the masses, so who knows of GNUstep could duplicate Mono's success.

Summary: The people who care just use OS X.

kunai2• 13 years ago

I use OS X. I develop in Obj-C occasionally (usually it's just GUI mockups), but I still have an old Linux laptop from 2005, and I love using it; I'd daresay using it is more enjoyable than my MacBook Air.

I don't think saying that C# is more familiar than Objective-C is really fair. Objective-C is far more widely used than C#; the amount of iPhone and iPad apps far outnumbers those of .NET applications.

runjake2• 13 years ago

> Objective-C is far more widely used than C#

> the amount of iPhone and iPad apps far outnumbers those of .NET applications.

[Citation needed]

Objc may be more "widely-used" in terms of end users, but I am extremely skeptical that objc programmers outnumber dotnet programmers. In fact, every survey I've seen places C# higher.

I'd also wager there are far more dotnet apps than iOS apps. Virtually all Windows applications are dotnet these days. Not to mention the vast number of web apps based on dotnet.

Ask HN: Is GNUstep dead?

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