Israel live-tweets assault on Gaza

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/11/israel-live-tweets-assault-on-gaza-provides-video-of-assassination/

by ChuckMcM • 14 years ago

72 162 14 years ago

ChuckMcM3• 14 years ago

I shared this because for me seems like a significant change on the force multiplier of the Internet. How will it affect the thoughts and impressions of folks who deal with this locally, or remotely? Will it inure us to violence or create hypersensitivity? Out of control rumor mills or inability to cover up anything. I don't know where this road leads but I'm not sure I even want to know.

DanBC2• 14 years ago

Do you know anyone who has changed their opinion about anything to do with Israel?

These tweets just re-enforce people's existing opinion.

Also, 'ELIMINATED' is a distasteful way of saying 'DEAD' or 'KILLED'.

GuiA• 14 years ago

The US as a whole tends to be very pro-Israel.

ChuckMcM3• 14 years ago

Yes I do know people who have changed points of view. But I am more interested in the way in which technology has changed the way all of the parties involved are acting. During the Egypt uprising as part of the Arab spring there was a tremendous backlash on Egypt for cutting off (or trying to) Internet access to keep word of what was going on from getting out. I felt that was pretty egregious, but I wouldn't feel bad if Twitter said "We don't want to enable you to prosecute your war and advertise it on our service."

So I find myself internally at a conflicted point. Why was it 'bad' for Egypt to do? Why wouldn't it be 'bad' for Twitter to do? (remember this is me asking myself if I can deduce through introspection why I'm conflicted) I'm not on either 'side' of the Palestinian conflict, but I am interested in trying to reason about morality and the Internet's impact on it.

sethbannon• 14 years ago

Anyone else notice how the IDF has a verified account but "Alqassam Brigades" does not?

davidkatz6• 14 years ago

I wonder how you would go about verifying an account for the Alqassam Brigades.

confluence3• 14 years ago

Holy shit! What the fuck are they doing? This is absolutely insane!

What better way to create more terrorists than by laughing in their faces, publishing military operations on Twitter as if they were trivial events, showing military kill strikes on YouTube and using game like graphics stating their leaders have been "eliminated".

Do you want to enrage your enemy into more violence or do you want to win?

Do your military operations - kill terrorists or don't - protect your borders or don't - I don't frankly give a damn.

But don't give the enemy more emotional ammunition than necessary, especially since you know they will use this as perfect fodder to indoctrinate even more people to their cause - especially children. This is the stuff they'll show kids, stating "Look, do you see how they mock us! - This is why you must fight and die!". You're just setting up the next wave of violence.

This is why the US military didn't release anything to do with Osama's assassination, and buried him at sea - nothing to worship, nothing to point to, nothing to show the people you want to brainwash - and say "Look how they mock us!".

You don't poke a cornered enemy unnecessarily. The expected value of that is negative.

It's not a fucking game.

davidkatz6• 14 years ago

I agree that the tone is childish and unnecessary, but I doubt it makes much of a difference.

Large organisations are still figuring out how to use social media, but in principle publishing an operation on twitter is no different than putting our a press release or sending someone for an interview at a major TV channel.

Same goes for making videos available on YouTube, I don't see anything wrong with that. In fact, since I don't watch TV I would have never seen this video if it wasn't made available online.

confluence3• 14 years ago

Reminds me of a key tenet I heard about PR is: It's not what you say, but how you say it.

A dry press release, no image data, and a dry political report from the relevant spokesperson is perfect for this - there's nothing to latch onto - if you just list the facts, and get it over with.

It's what Obama did after Osama was assassinated, and it worked well - there was nothing offensive to latch on to, nothing to point to, and say "Look, that's what you are fighting for!".

meepmorp• 14 years ago

I agree in principle, but honestly this is pretty low on the list of things that Israel does that helps build the next wave of Palestinian militants. The blockade of the Gaza Strip, for example - whatever you think of its merits - has had a fairly harsh effect on average people living there, and has been a effective tool in keeping the support for Hamas high. It's let up somewhat recently, though it'll be interesting to see what happens with the ongoing political turmoil in Egypt.

DodgyEggplant• 14 years ago

"blockade of the Gaza Strip"

Gaza strip borders Egypt on the southwest (11 km) and Israel on the east and north (51 km (32 mi))[1]. Israel can only "blockade" it's borders. The border to Egypt is open, and that where the rockets come from. The strip was occupied too long, true (38 years), but once Israel pulled you would expect something better than a fundamentalist militant Islamic regim that is focused on terror rather then encouraging better life after the occupation. One can hardly call "free from occupation" the Palestinians who live under this Islamic brutal oppression.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip

hindsightbias• 14 years ago

You are confusing a feature for a bug here.

The objective requires an enemy.

philwelch25• 14 years ago

> This is why the US military didn't release anything to do with Osama's assassination

I distinctly remember footage, on al-Jazeera of all networks, of Americans outside the White House singing "na na na na hey hey hey goodbye". OK, nothing official, but it's there. But oddly, no reprisals.

stickfigure• 14 years ago

Wild guess: This is for domestic consumption, or consumption by western allies. The face you present to your own citizens is not the face you present to your enemy. Most Palestinians probably don't read english anyways.

eoin_murphy3• 14 years ago

It may be for domestic consumption but there are plenty of Palestinians who do speak English and I'm pretty sure at least some of them are on Twitter. After all, if a Danish cartoon in a newspaper can set off riots in countries where it is not published then I'm sure public posts on a very popular website will get some coverage.

Regardless of how the Palestinians react to it, it does just seem a very dehumanized way of approaching a conflict where actual real people are dying.

earlyresort• 14 years ago

The Arab world is already awash in antisemitic propaganda. This Twitter account isn't going to move the needle there.

No, this account is aimed at Americans. It shares short, simple, true messages: Hamas is a terrorist organization, Hamas launches hundreds of rockets into Israel, Israel is defending itself, and Israel is rather good at defending itself. The messages are designed to be shared with friends, in order to combat anti-Israeli attitudes. If you look at the IDF's blog (http://www.idfblog.com/), they've even added some game mechanics to the mix with their 'IDF Ranks'.

Personally, I think it's brilliant.

skrebbel16• 14 years ago

I doubt it'll work. Before this, I merely thought of the Israeli government as a bunch of nazis who believe that driving people out of their homes is god's work. Now, I also think they're barbarians.

haberman3• 14 years ago

I'm an American who is split on this issue (I find fault on both sides). None of the things you mentioned were ever uncertain to me.

If Israel is looking for more support from people like me, the question I'd like to see them answer is: how do they justify the West Bank settlements? I can't even begin to understand how Israel can claim to want peace with Palestinians while unilaterally moving into the land where 2/3 of them live. Where do they think the Palestinian state should be?

I can't even say I'm disagreeing with Israel's stance on this issue, because I honestly don't understand what theory Israel uses to justify this. Every time I read any news on this issue, there is a conspicuous lack of comment from Israeli leadership about why this is ok. It's like they don't believe it needs explaining. It's very strange to me.

Hamas is awful, but what space are Israel's policies leaving for more moderate Palestinian leadership?

epoxyhockey• 14 years ago

Coming from someone who isn't really engaged in the whole Israel-Palestine thing (and, honestly, won't be until they cause the next world war), this little display makes me feel like IDF is presenting a very real, serious act (killing a person) as if it is a game.

The trophy eliminated graphic and youtube video.. it's almost like they aren't even serious about killing people and using military force. It has a reckless feeling to it and it doesn't sit well with me.

azth• 14 years ago

> The Arab world is already awash in antisemitic propaganda.

Funny how the word 'antisemitic' gets thrown around; Arabs are Semites too.

abrown28• 14 years ago

I dont think this matters at all. When their provocation of Israely soldiers fails to give them what they want the fake it. Israel exists is all the provacation they need.

chacham15• 14 years ago

There are two sides to the coin. One that they take the media personally and another that it boosts morale for a people who are bombed and hurt mentally and physically. It is my feeling that the latter benefit will outweigh the earlier cost.

pinaceae3• 14 years ago

you mean besides the 'iconic' picture of the war room with Obama and his top aides watching the raid? detailed accounts of what happened? pictures of the aftermath? an onslaught of books, movies, references?

nope, nothing at all. but somehow everyone knows that seal team six is BADASS.

pointing to the US, of all countries, as a counter example is a cognitive dissonance of such magnitude, it is baffling.

greetings from Europe.

confluence3• 14 years ago

Those were press releases - they happen everyday to report serious events.

The White House pictures showed no glee and did not trivialise the situation - they were serious and released appropriately. No photos of Osama or his assassination were released.

The pictures of the aftermath were from Pakistan.

Books/Movies/References occur with any high impact event - you cannot stop them.

Greetings from "get off your high horse", the real world is messy - hence you deal with the situations as best you can as they arise - but obviously Europe is doing just fine - so we should all probably listen to you.

Oh wait - no you aren't.

tomjen3• 14 years ago

What Obama did with Osama was a fucking scandal and should have cost him the presidency.

The only way thing the muslim murders fear is humiliation. A quick martyrdom followed by a dignified burial at sea is not going to deter anybody. And they have all the reason they need to hate the US so long as there are soldiers on 'muslim' land. Just as they have plenty of things to hate Israel for, no matter what they are posting on twitter.

cema4• 14 years ago

  What Obama did with Osama was a fucking scandal 
  and should have cost him the presidency.

Why?

  The only way thing the muslim murders fear is humiliation.

Why?

  A quick martyrdom followed by a dignified burial at sea 
  is not going to deter anybody.

Why?

Look, I understand frustration and feelings, but we can talk rationally here.

wsc981• 14 years ago

I don't see any emotional tones attached to the Tweets, like you seem to suggest in your comment. Now you receive the news from tweets -from the moment it happens- instead of reading about it in tomorrow's paper.

I guess Israel feels they need to be more in control of the news that will be send out, sending the news out themselves from the moment it happens is one way of achieving this.

I see the need for this. Here in Europe many countries, organisations (like the EU) and media outlets seem to be more politically aligned with Arab nations compared to Israel. I believe this to be because the Arab nations are much more worth as trade partner to Europe compared to Israel and in the end money makes the world go round. Perhaps by sending these tweets Israel can gain more support from the (European) citizens.

kamaal7• 14 years ago

>>Do you want to enrage your enemy into more violence or do you want to win?

Provoke your enemies to launch small time worthless rocket(Without much firepower or guidance system to cause organized damage) attacks at you. Use those attacks, now as a reason- Call it terrorism and then bomb them left right and center with F-16s and call it defending yourself.

I am not supporting anybody here. But this is a valid defense strategy in a war.

You can do anything in a war so as long you can justify it.

muuh-gnu• 14 years ago

> Do you want to enrage your enemy into more violence

Yes, in a "go on, make my day" kind of way, to justify even more future military action, since Israel is likely to win any future conflict.

> This is why the US military didn't release anything

US military's goal was not the same as Israel's goal.

> or do you want to win?

They want to win, but not as you think.

Their definition of "win" is to ethnically clean Palestinians from biblical Israel, so yes, engaging them in more and more and more violence is the way to go.

> You're just setting up the next wave of violence.

And the next wave of violence will lead to the next way of Israel wins, and the next way of Israel wins will lead to the next way of settlements and land expropriation. Mission accomplished. The Israeli far right loves it when a plan comes together.

> It's not a fucking game.

Your problem is that you dont even for a second consider the possibility that Israel is the bad guy in this game, i.e. the Nazis, so youre all the time "wrong move, wrong move, WTF are they doing?!?!". From a bully's point of view, Israels tactics fully make sense. You start a conflict and then you win and you take your victims toys and chase him from the playground.

Shorel• 14 years ago

I'm trying to be objective and not emotionally involved about this issue.

This is what I understand: historically you don't defeat and dominate your enemy and after some generations all is good. Historically you killed everyone to ensure no new generations would come back to fight back.

This means that historically all children were murdered too. Total eradication of entire civilizations.

The modern western warfare now respects children and woman. This is a HUGE change, and the consequences are still being discovered.

Now everything is a public relations issue. I don't agree or disagree with what's happening, I simply watch in fascination as an external unrelated entity.

davidkatz6• 14 years ago

This definitely has historical significance, and I find it fascinating. Thanks for sharing! Generally, I believe that more direct channels between governments and citizens will be a long term win for everyone.

cup5• 14 years ago

An adaption from an earlier comment of mine:

Lets be frank, this was a targeted assassination by a nation state that consistently tries to paint itself as a beacon of democracy in the region.

Say all you want about Ahmed Jabari but his modus operandi was a direct result of a life of occupation and subjugation. You don't go into prison at the age of 22 and come out 13 years later a happy individual. I mean it was only 6 years ago that Hamas was democratically elected in a process considered fair and transparant, only for the elections to be found null and void by those (US/Israel et al) outside of Gaza!

Edit: On a side note, I wonder whether many people know that Likud, the Netanyahus political party, does not recognise Palestines right to exist!

philwelch25• 14 years ago

I find it very strange that people criticize Israel for assassinating terrorist, but say nothing about Obama's kill list or drone strikes.

gyardley5• 14 years ago

Interesting, how people hold the world's only Jewish state to a different moral standard than every other country. There's a word for that.

avolcano• 14 years ago

Erm, I haven't seen this at all. In fact, most of the people I know who are most critical of Israel are also critical of Obama's foreign policy (though most begrudgingly voted for him anyways, because, y'know, Romney).

skrebbel16• 14 years ago

Most people I know who tend to criticize Israel, tend to also believe that America's self-assigned world wide license to kill is an atrocity.

illuminate3• 14 years ago

"I find it very strange that people criticize Israel for assassinating terrorist, but say nothing about Obama's kill list or drone strikes."

You should try asking them how they feel about this instead of claiming hypocrisy.

pinaceae3• 14 years ago

does Hamas recognize the right of Israel to exist?

this is war.

cup5• 14 years ago

No, this is occupation and apartheid.

YZF4• 14 years ago

What do targeted assassinations have to do with democracy? The USA, the great bastion of democracy, engages in those as a matter of daily practice. I don't think these tactics are always useful but it's one of the things that can happen in situations where you have two parties who want to fight a war. I would say the outcome was a result of choosing to wage an armed struggle (mostly targeting civilian population) towards the destruction of Israel. He made his choices (which included firing hundreds of rockets to population centers). What does "recognizing" someone's right to "exist" mean in this context? "Palestine" is not recognized by anyone in the world so why should the Likud recognize it? This is a new entity that the Palestinians want to create. Perhaps it is the best solution for the region but for it to actually exist some sort of agreement has to be reached.

gexla• 14 years ago

Joke time

I wonder how many people who have followed IDF since this attack are terrorists.

IDF Twitter status: Following @terrorist... with my laser! LMAO

They might as well setup a FourSquare account also. IDF is now mayor of license plate xxxxx.

genuine• 14 years ago

The scary thing is that I heard "some expert" recently on NPR that Iran does more harm to us (e.g. 1979-1980 hostage crisis) when the Democrats are in control, because usually the Democrats don't have the strong military stance of the Republicans.

This could be extrapolated to "if Israel doesn't do this sort of thing, then it will be a sign of weakness to the Palestinians, Iran, and others", however I don't think that is true. There is a line between an aggressive posture and just downright being awful, and they crossed it.

Also assassination is wrong no matter who it is done to. Geneva convention or not, life is sacred and even those that have committed the utmost atrocities deserve only to be separated from everyone else so they can do no more harm and perhaps learn from their mistakes and repent. I know that I would be just as angry as the Israelis or Palestinians if I had to experience what they have, though.

xenophanes13• 14 years ago

What is awful?

Israel defends themselves -- not enough (if some Israeli innocents still get murdered and Israel still attacked in the future, how can that be enough defense?) -- and you call it "awful"? Explain yourself!

kibwen• 14 years ago

I'm agape at such a bizarre use of social media. If I didn't know better, I'd say this was satire. Hell, this image alone is Onion-worthy: http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/war-of...

Thing is, I can't pinpoint why, exactly, it feels so strange. Just... militant combatants pledging mutual annihilation, living right alongside a photo of your aunt's cat peering out of a shoebox. The dissonance is off the charts.

sharkweek• 14 years ago

This whole social media being used in war strikes me as something right of of a Vonnegut novel

chemcoder• 14 years ago

I think israel war tactics are better. They are creating phobia amongst all the Hamas leaders and members. They are deliberately showing their superior discipline and power and challenging the indisciplined hamas members.

Good thing is they killed a well known military leader and a terrorist . Just to send a message , I mean striking terror in the heart of enemy is the single most accurate technique that has worked since the origin of war. I think those who volunteer for Hamas now will think twice about it.

Frankly enforcing religion in military used to work when people fought with knives and swords . Here most wars are won with discipline and intelligence . No religion led military will ever win , they are just a bunch of monkeys jumping here and there and are too emotional to think with their heads .

natex• 14 years ago

From the Reuters article, "Panicking civilians ran for cover and the death toll mounted quickly. Ten people including three children were killed, the health ministry said, and about 40 were wounded. Also among the dead were an 11-month-old baby and a woman pregnant with twins."

xenophanes13• 14 years ago

The best (relatively) short, online history of Israel:

http://www.settingtheworldtorights.com/node/74

glomph2• 14 years ago

I really don't think an article like this belongs on this site. The only discussion is going to be hate vs. hate. Nothing about innovation, technology, start ups or anything close.

Israel live-tweets assault on Gaza

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