Ask HN: What makes the perfect office? I'm building one.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4739458

by gwynm • 14 years ago

8 19 14 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I run a web development agency with 18 people. The building we're looking at moving to will need extensive refurbishment, so we have a chance to spec out our office 'wish list' and then build that!

So: If you could completely design your office space (aesthetics, layout, furniture, lighting, flooring), how would you want it to be?

(We're a Rails agency, working in scrum teams of 2 or 4, doing some pairing but not full-time, based in London).

struppi• 14 years ago

I guess this is pretty different from person to person, but this would be my ideal workplace:

    - Small offices (1-2 people) with doors that close
    - Long, streight desks (for pair programming), height-adjustable (standing desks)
    - Many small "meeting" areas for ad-hoc meetings
    - At least 2 large monitors per workstation
    - Walls, cupboards, ... covered in whiteboard foil
    - Lots of plants

caw2• 14 years ago

I know this is sounds strange, but cubes can be nice from an operations standpoint. It gives you access to other cube mates fairly easily, which is essential in trying to keep stuff running.

While I would prefer a private or semi-private office, keep in mind there comes a point where you're growing and there's not enough offices. You either live with it for a while and you end up with new hires getting stuck in crazy places, or you have to move offices which is a pain.

Given the choice between sitting in an entranceway of 3 private offices (basically a larger room chopped into 3 private offices, with shared space in between), or in a cube, I'd pick the cube. That same business then decided that they needed cubes, so they destroyed 3 private offices, and stuck in cubes. Since the room wasn't designed for that, the cube arrangement was strange and not conducive to working together.

From experience, avoid whiteboard wallpaper. It gets trashy and it's hard to replace because it's glued to the wall. You also don't have a tray for your markers.

Height adjustable desks are amazing, having gone through an office upgrade that included the installation of them. My old fixed desk wasn't exactly the right height, so you have to make all sorts of other ergo adjustments.

EliRivers• 14 years ago

"It gives you access to other cube mates fairly easily"

If those cube-mates have to spend a lot of time thinking about things, this can be very bad news indeed. I see it all the time, and I think DeMarco poked at it in Peopleware all those years ago. If it takes someone ten to fifteen minutes to get into a mental flow situation, holding the context of their task in their head and thinking about, a cube-mate leaning over to ask something they could have looked up for themselves in a minute saves that cube-mate one minute, and costs the interrupted thinker several minutes to get back into flow. I even see it reach the point where people who know they really need to think about something gather up their paper and disappear elsewhere in the building.

caw2• 14 years ago

I agree with everything you said. People do disappear, WFH, and put up do not disturb signs. However, this is from an operations standpoint, where heavy collaboration is needed to get stuff done. It may not be good for a pure programming shop.

brudgers• 14 years ago

The task you are engaged in is called "architectural programming."

Along with a budget, it forms the design brief.

It is the sort of task that benefits from hiring a design professional.

eytanlevit• 14 years ago

If you are from the US, I highly suggest you go and take a look a the way WeWork has designed their offices.

Quite amazing, and people love it.

147• 14 years ago

Found a tour of their offices.

http://www.businessinsider.com/wework-labs-tour-2011-4?op=1

johnrgrace• 14 years ago

Go call up steelcase, I've recently learned yea the make office furniture but they spend a LOT of time and energy working on and thinking about how to set up offices. Read their 360 magazine which talks about office space setup you'll get some great ideas.

UnoriginalGuy• 14 years ago

Spend every penny on the chairs. Get really nice chairs, like crazy nice, and then get cheap desks (e.g. Ikea).

As far as lighting I would just say make it extra departmentalised. Some people prefer to work in the shade others prefer those horrible office lights. I would also look at air conditioning and how adjustable it is.

Nothing else matters because everything else will likely be changed as it is needed. Even if you decide on a layout, if it doesn't work people will change it down the road.

But seriously: Get nice chairs.

lefthansolo2• 14 years ago

nice chairs is a good one, but here are some others:

1. some people don't like keyboard trays, but I've had shoulder problems after several years of working without the keyboard at the right height. get them

2. get plastic adjustable stands for monitor and keyboards immediately, not on user request. make it ergonomic, but you don't have to spend the big bucks

3. some developers need special environments (i.e. less noise, less visual distraction), but some feed off of interaction. learn what these needs are and either make it happen or don't hire them, but don't find out too late. do not handle this with white noise. it may mean they can't co-locate to be as productive, and if that is a problem, you need to figure that out

4. people sometimes need privacy. don't foster an environment that encourages people to take calls inside or meet in cubes, distracting others

codeonfire• 14 years ago

A point on 3. Some devs know what they are doing and prefer working alone in a quiet area. A lot of other devs have no idea what they are doing and disparage any situation where people aren't practically sharing seats and doing each other's work. Why? because they want other people around them to answer their questions, to do their work, and solve their problems. They are not "feeding" off interaction. They simply don't know the job. Do surgeons only work in groups because surgery is such as social experience that they feed off the social energy which lets them really bro down and do some surgery? No.

The people who typically put offices together usually don't come from an academic background and they typically don't do anything by themselves. Ever. They go from meeting to meeting all day. They have no basis for understanding that some jobs require individual effort. They buy group B's pitch by default. So they make some really bad mistakes:

Open floor plan - great for people who need to ask a lot of questions. bad for people who know the answers and will get interrupted.

Face to Face seating - great for people who want to get other people's attention. bad for people who want to concentrate on hard problems.

albahk2• 14 years ago

Coming from a commercial real-estate consultant (as opposed to a programmer/startup guru) these are the things many companies would do well to consider when doing office fitout.

- Don't put boardroom/meeting rooms against the windows with the best views, leave them internal and put your employees where the best views/natural light is;

- Avoid a single monolithic meeting room and go for two smaller rooms with a common wall that can be pulled back. Large meeting rooms for >30 ppl at once tend to be under-utilised most of the time;

- If the expected budget is more than US$100k consider bringing on a project manager - they will generally earn back their fees with keeping everything in budget and fixing potentially costly issues as they arise rather than 6 months later;

- Don't try to cut costs on anything that an employee touches, sits on or uses i.e. chairs, desks, coffee machine etc. It is almost always a false economy to cut costs here;

- Ask the landlord to contribute some money to the fitout (can't hurt to ask);

- If you are going open-plan try to avoid offices around the perimeter windows as they will tend to block the natural light from getting into the main office;

- Hardwood/concrete floors sound like a good idea but keep in mind they can be quite noisy in high-traffic areas.

tomcam• 14 years ago

Incredibly perceptive and amazingly employee-centric. I've learned a lot of this the hard way.

albahk2• 14 years ago

Thanks for the comment - glad I can contribute something in my ultra niche of knowledge and experience.

joonix• 14 years ago

Fresh fruit stocked and a Blendtec/Vitamix for smoothies.

Herbal teas and teapots you can take to your desk.

Foam roller for the ailing back. Seriously.

Espresso machine.

I know this isn't layout but having these in your kitchen would be nice. I've thought a lot about this in the past because one day I hope to be in your position. Congrats on the new offices.

mey• 14 years ago

Since I haven't seen anyone else mention it, ventilation! Fresh, clean, breathable air does wonders for mood. Good circulation also keeps people from getting sick and heating/cooling issues from being silly.

This is not a simple thing to address, or easily noticed in spaces before a wall is up.

gadders• 14 years ago

Joel Spolsky had some good advice: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2008/12/29.html

asher_• 14 years ago

I just watched the following video today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cku6RJPIGG8

It is about the Fog Creek offices, it's well worth the money if you are designing an office.

Ask HN: What makes the perfect office? I'm building one.

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