Liskell – Haskell Semantics with Lisp Syntax [pdf]

http://clemens.endorphin.org/ILC07-Liskell-draft.pdf

by todsacerdoti • 7 months ago

73 25 7 months ago

clemens.endorphin.org

bjoli• 7 months ago

I will prempt the comment that always shows up in discussions of this kind:

No. Typeclasses do not replace proper macros. Go home, you are drunk.

BalinKing2• 7 months ago

Another argument I've often heard is that laziness largely obviates macros. Personally, I agree that this is often true—but not always, and that last bit is where Lisp-style macros would be really nice.

(^^ edited based on one of the responses below.)

jasbrg• 7 months ago

do you know of a post or something you could point to that elaborates that argument? interested because I'm having trouble coming up with the line of reasoning on my own

Symmetry• 7 months ago

The venerable master Qc Na was walking with his student, Anton. Hoping to prompt the master into a discussion, Anton said "Master, I have heard that objects are a very good thing - is this true?" Qc Na looked pityingly at his student and replied, "Foolish pupil - objects are merely a poor man's closures."

Chastised, Anton took his leave from his master and returned to his cell, intent on studying closures. He carefully read the entire "Lambda: The Ultimate..." series of papers and its cousins, and implemented a small Scheme interpreter with a closure-based object system. He learned much, and looked forward to informing his master of his progress.

On his next walk with Qc Na, Anton attempted to impress his master by saying Master, I have diligently studied the matter, and now understand that objects are truly a poor man's closures." Qc Na responded by hitting Anton with his stick, saying "When will you learn? Closures are a poor man's object."

At that moment, Anton became enlightened.

Y_Y• 7 months ago

I'll get in trouble if I show up this drunk at this hour, can't I just bolt on a templating system?

EricRiese• 7 months ago

There's also Hackett: Haskell with Racket's syntax and macro system, by Alexis King

privong• 7 months ago

To save folks a search:

github repo: https://github.com/lexi-lambda/hackett

Documentation: https://lexi-lambda.github.io/hackett/

fithisux2• 7 months ago

It is time for Rusted !!!

Rust semantics with D syntax (garbage collector is a bonus).

Xophmeister• 7 months ago

Didn’t D get an ownership model, a la Rust’s affine types, relatively recently?

fithisux2• 7 months ago

I don't think so, but they are working towards it.

The big news is that this will cover the GC cases too, not only the manual memory management.

vindarel• 7 months ago

The other way round, a Haskell on top of a Lisp, in production today: https://github.com/coalton-lang/coalton/

Coalton is an efficient, statically typed functional programming language that supercharges Common Lisp.

Presentation this year on the ELS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of92m4XNgrM

dieggsy2• 7 months ago

I'm not sure I'd say this is "the other way around"; Coalton strives to implement Haskell or ML-adjacent semantics (in the type system, for example) with Lisp syntax. "With" here meaning that it is both implemented in and written with Lisp syntax.

Edit: I think I see what you mean now. Lisp backend vs Haskell backend.

Anyway, Coalton is a joy to use and IMO a breath of fresh air in CL. It's quite easy start using as a library; go all-in or only use it in specific parts of the code. It's great to be able to choose between (or intermix)the flexibility of CL and the guarantees of a statically typed language (as well as some nice performance boosts with arguably less work). Some aspects are still young (some of the standard library, ecosystem, editor support), but it's quite thoughtfully crafted and I'm excited to see where it goes.

flavio81• 7 months ago

Coalton strives to implement Haskell or ML-adjacent semantics (in the type system, for example) with Lisp syntax. "With" here meaning that it is both implemented in and written with Lisp syntax.

Not exactly. Coalton brings ML-style strong typing to Common Lisp. But Coalton code is also Lisp code.

The backend, thus, is Common Lisp, and it is available at all times, thus leveraging all its power.

srott2• 7 months ago

How does it compare to Shen?

https://shenlanguage.org

adastra222• 7 months ago

Kinda hard to tell when I can’t find a single example of the language on its website.

srott2• 7 months ago

really, I did't realize there was no link

https://shen-language.github.io

swatson741• 7 months ago

Date of publication is from 2007.

felipelalli• 7 months ago

Savior of the universe.

skywhopper• 7 months ago

I was told Lisp didn’t have syntax.

zephen• 7 months ago

It has minimal, very regular, syntax.

Which is a strength in some aspects, and, although many lispers will never admit it, a weakness in others.

Liskell – Haskell Semantics with Lisp Syntax [pdf]

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