Ask HN: Is New York ever going to beat Silicon Valley?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4537412

by jval • 14 years ago

4 5 14 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

Is New York's 'tech renaissance' going to ever put it on par with Silicon Valley? Or is it all just a bunch of hot air?

I mean specifically regarding web startups, as opposed to hardware stuff where there doesn't seem to have been as much attention. By 'on par' I mean in a position where it can produce at least a handful of multi-billion dollar web exits, even if SV ultimately has a greater volume.

Are there any key blogs that cover the NY Tech Scene in particular?

ariannahsimpson• 14 years ago

Hard to say, but I think one of the main hinderances is availability of capital, especially to early stage startups. It's not that there isn't money in NY, it's just generally far more available to later-stage companies (and arguing which is better is a whole other issue). Clearly, if a startup is having trouble raising on the East coast, they have two options: give up, or move West. I think that as long as this is happening, the scales are likely to continue to tip in SV's favor.

brudgers• 14 years ago

It's possible, but unlikely for the same sorts of reasons that the Bay Area is ever likely to be 'on par' with New York in terms of theatre. Bay Area culture accepts failed startups just as New York culture accepts failed plays. Likewise, the couch surfing ramen fueled lifestyle is fine for programmers in the Valley just like actors in New York.

Every city has a cluster of socially acceptable reasons for being broke. In New York, being an entrepreneur tends to be not among them.

seiji• 14 years ago

As far as I can tell, the current tech/startup rankings are SF > The Bay Area > Seattle > NY.

SF/The Bay Area win because everybody you meet will likely be another startup/tech person. The constant influence drives creativity, spontaneous idea generation, acquisitions, pr, hr, etc. Also, acceptable weather.

Seattle's tech scene is 90% Amazon employees. You have other smaller companies and startups out there, but Amazon dominates. To start a company, you'll be fighting Amazon for employees. If you hire an ex-Amazon employee, you have to spend six months deprogramming them from broken Amazon processes and lifestyles. Bonus for Seattle: no personal or corporate income tax (just a 9.5% sales tax).

NY's tech scene is almost hidden. You won't run into it day to day. You'll run into actors, models, fashion designers, lawyers, quants, tourists, and people trying to find their place in the world. You won't hear someone talking about json or rails or functional programing in coffee shops or on the subway.

Summary conclusion: If you're a high strung aspie nerd who wants to win win win -- SF or The Bay Area. If you don't need tons of employees or can import employees from around the country, Seattle beats SF to avoid taxhell and dirtyhell and smellyhell and homelesshell. If you want to date, have a life, have culture, and cross pollinate your company with The Real World, NY wins.

Transit conclusion: In The Bay Area or Seattle, you'll want to have a car. If you never leave SF, you can get by without a car. In NYC, only crazy people have cars (just wait until you can afford a door-to-office helicopter).

Place-to-live conclusion: SF's housing/rental market is broken. Seattle has more sane rents and places to live, but nothing is connected by transit. NY has adjustable rent depending how far out you want to live, and everything connected by transit.

Starting a company conclusion: Seattle wins because of no income tax, still having a relatively high techie population, and young we-can-do-this atmosphere. California rips almost 10% out of your paycheck for personal taxes and more with corporate taxes, but you're surrounded by the best startup people in the world. NY has a more sane personal income tax level around 6%, but you'll be importing startup people or herding them yourself (just convince some actors to act as programmers until they can actually program).

Actual conclusion: If you want the easy build-to-flip or fail-by-acquihire approach, be in SF. If you want to be around good people and not be taken advantage of by your local governments, use Seattle to start/grow your company. If your company deals with real people having real problems and you want to live an adventure, use New York City.

Am I qualified to have these opinions? Check my profile.

suyash• 14 years ago

As far as I can tell, the current tech/startup rankings are SF > The Bay Area > Seattle > NY. - INCORRECT

CORRECT VERSION: Peninsula > South Bay > East Bay > SF > NY > Boston > Austin.

mapster• 14 years ago

Take into account the large start-up culture employers - Google, Apple, FB, Yahoo to name a few. And Standford as a thinktank. Funding bank: VCs and angels. These are hubs where talent revolve around and from which money flows. In the absence of established hubs, thinktanks, and VC pool, there will be little neck-neck competition with SV/SF. Which is to say it is better to have diverse startup cultures in the US, some small, some monoliths, each different and unique.

Ask HN: Is New York ever going to beat Silicon Valley?

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