Apple's Favoritism to Fastmail

https://xcancel.com/mxroute/status/1952890684660203830

by paul-tharun • 12 months ago

68 39 12 months ago

xcancel.com

tyleo• 12 months ago

I feel like this is low on details. I despise social media comments as HN submissions.

What actually happened here?

paul-tharun• 12 months ago

MXRoute has been trying from ages to get push notifications on the IOS mail app but were getting ignored.

FastMail got access to it and it is not clear how, without any public announcement or documentation.

It is as if Apple just picked a favorite and went with it.

Weethet• 12 months ago

FastMail is using JMAP, a protocol designed to support push notifications. MXRoute is stuck with SMTP/IMAP which don't support those. There might be a different reason, but I think this is probably the core issue here

slau• 12 months ago

I kind of wrote about this: https://sebastian.lauwe.rs/blog/ios-migadu-notifications/

It’s more focused on how to get notifications to work with an email server that does not support XAPPLEPUSHSERVICE, but I also delve into how Apple abandoned the only reference implementation of XAPPLEPUSHSERVICE.

mpercival5313• 12 months ago

iOS Mail app does not support IMAP IDLE like any ordinary email clients.

It only supports a proprietary IMAP extension that uses Apple Push Notification Services (APNS) as a sideband channel for IMAP servers to signal the iOS Mail app.

Last I researched this (like… years ago), most IMAP-based email providers that are listed by the iOS Settings have implemented the extension, except for Gmail and Exchange. Fastmail then got on the train since 2015.

Not sure what is with the tweet targeting Fastmail specifically though.

jeffbee• 12 months ago

Ironically, Google does use APNS to support its own Gmail app on iOS, and for many other reasons. Just not for IMAP.

admdly6• 12 months ago

Fastmail have been singled out as they appear to have been given special treatment in the form of an APNS topic ID. Other hosts have been using a reverse engineered endpoint to generate certificates, which has recently been closed.

There’s some discussion on the Apple developer forums - https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/778671. The solution for the OP there seems to have been they also will get special treatment, but there remains no route for others to use to get the same.

fluidcruft5• 12 months ago

Yeah I looked at the link and first reaction is there are no receipts and failure to produce receipts registers with me as adequately explained as a "skill issue" (via some sort of corollary to Hanlon's razor). My outrage meter is unmoved.

admdly6• 12 months ago

There isn’t a skill issue at play here - it’s that Apple have closed the previously unofficial route others have been using (including MXRoute), which has brought the issue to a head. There’s some discussion on the Apple developer forums - https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/778671.

nerdjon• 12 months ago

I am a bit confused here as well, is there a difference between "Push" and the notifications on iOS?

I just checked my emails, I use Amazon Workmail and even that has push support. The only one for me that doesn't is my lesser used gmail.

To my knowledge I get alerts quickly with that email, I have never had an issue of not.

jervant2• 12 months ago

https://github.com/st3fan/dovecot-xaps-daemon

https://github.com/st3fan/dovecot-xaps-plugin

1over1372• 12 months ago

No updates in 6 year. Do you know if it still works?

jervant2• 12 months ago

Yes, though you still need to renew the certificate through OS X Server.

st3fan• 12 months ago

Author here .. I haven't run it personally in a long time since I moved to hosted email. It was always an unofficial hack :-/

yohannparis2• 12 months ago

Or maybe... FastMail created JMAP, ergo they are the one with the best implementation. Now Apple is working on moving iCloud to JMAP, and are working with FastMail as a JMAP production level service within mail.app.

1over1372• 12 months ago

Your alternate theory doesn't pass Occam's razor given Apple's general behaviour. Do you have any evidence?

yohannparis2• 12 months ago

None, that's why I started with "Maybe...". I'm spitballing here and try to exchange ideas with other people interested in the topic to debate it.

I love every answer my comment received!

admdly6• 12 months ago

Apple uses a proprietary IMAP extension that, until recently, any developer could use by generating a APNS certificate using a reverse engineered endpoint from macOS Server. They’ve since closed this.

Fastmail have had sanctioned access from Apple (via their own APNS topic ID) - https://www.fastmail.com/blog/push-email-now-available-in-io...

mpercival5313• 12 months ago

How iOS Mail gets push inbox updates working with third-party IMAP servers is in the public since 2015/2016 if you look hard enough. That has nothing to do with JMAP the protocol inherently.

whazor• 12 months ago

There were some changes last week to the JMAP Email Delivery Push Notifications[1], so that could be related.

[1] https://github.com/jmapio/jmap/commit/1335683f8b542c71bc41a4...

jarland5• 12 months ago

The stock Mail app for iOS does not support JMAP.

solarkraft• 12 months ago

I know you said „maybe“, but this is how rumors begin.

I can not find any reference to Apple having any involvement with or interest in JMAP (as much as I’d wish so).

jbc1• 12 months ago

Does Fastmail really get push? I have a vague recollection that the reason I’m using their app over native ios Mail is because ios Mail was notifying me about emails with a noticeable delay.

mpercival5313• 12 months ago

It is “notify to pull”.

IMAP servers through APNS ping the iOS Mail about updates in certain pre-registered inboxes. Then iOS Mail re-fetches those inboxes.

The change signal is pushed; the data (inboxes/emails) aren’t.

MrDarcy• 12 months ago

I’ve been hearing a lot of good things about Fastmail. Time to try them out.

frizlab• 12 months ago

I am a happy subscriber since a long time ago (10 years, I think?). They are amazing. The job is done and there is nothing else in the way.

This and Kagi are my top subscriptions recommendations.

nunez• 12 months ago

this was the reason why i moved to fastmail, and it works great

Apple's Favoritism to Fastmail

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