Pakistan and India have agreed 'full and immediate ceasefire'

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cwy3jnl3nvwt

by unmole • 1 year ago

13 8 1 year ago

sieve4• 1 year ago

Probably a mistake on India's part, but the future will tell us.

We have the habit of squandering away the gains made on the battlefield on the negotiation table, famously after the 1971 war that birthed Bangladesh where thousands of square kilometers of captured territory and 93,000 POWs were given up without forcing the Pakistanis to hand over POJK and GB.

This is without considering historical examples when Islamic raiders would lose battle after battle and Hindu kings would let them go back till the day the Hindus lose and are slaughtered enmasse.

Some good things have come out of this:

* We now know that Chinese radars do not work against Indian supersonic/hypersonic missiles.

* The Indian air defense systems proved themselves by shooting down drones, missiles and aircraft.

* India has changed its soft policy on terror by considering an terror attack on Indian soil to be an act of war.

* India is going to starve them of water. The suspension of the IWT stands.

This is a temporary pause. It is Pakistan's psyche to go running to America for help each time it has been spanked by India. And once it recovers, it tries another "misadventure."

While it is in India's interest to dismember Pakistan into four parts, it is in America's interest to keep the irritant alive. The US let China grow into the behemoth that it is. And it does not want to see this being repeated again with India.

We live in interesting times.

leosanchez2• 1 year ago

We have the habit of squandering away the gains made on the battlefield on the negotiation table

Do you think religion has anything to do here ? We pardoned rulers multiple times, who later came back to invade us.

sieve4• 1 year ago

In a way, yes. Hinduism slowly lost its warrior ethos post Buddhism and Jainism and their fetishization of non-violence.

All our books (itihasas and shastras) warn about enemies and how to deal with them. And people simply forgot all that.

As far as the opponents go, the religion doesn't really matter. Kings spared Mihirakula[1] of the Huns (who was a Shaivite Hindu) just like they spared various Islamic/Turkic raiders. And the results were as expected: betrayal and murder.

OT. I was watching Radhavallabh Tripathi's 3-episode series on Kālidāsa's Mālavikāgnimitram where he covers the politics of that era. And this point comes up. You can find it on YT (in Hindi) if you are interested.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mihirakula

istajeer242• 1 year ago

I'm not Indian, nor Pakistani, nor from South Asia.

I just wanted to clarify some points...

* It was Pakistan that shot 3 to 5 Indian jets. Pakistan says three Rafale jets, a MiG-29, and an Su-30, along with one Heron drone. NY Times confirms at least 3. This was a huge win for Pakistan by all military expert accounts. This was all using Chinese technology.

* Trump said today that it was India that went to the US to solve the situation. CNN also reported this.

To me, it was a huge win for China and Pakistan. A US official has also confirmed that, stating they stood by to see what China had.

India isn't innocent either; they meddle a lot with Balochistani separatist groups in Pakistan. This is no hidden secret. These terrorists have killed Chinese engineers.

There has been a lot of false information out there, particularly from Indian media (many accounts said a pilot was also captured, and other cities such as Karachi were hit). It was very alarming to see such blatantly wrong accounts by mainstream Indian media.

theoryaway• 1 year ago

was Pakistan that shot 3 to 5 Indian jets. Pakistan says three Rafale jets, a MiG-29, and an Su-30, along with one Heron drone. NY Times confirms at least 3. This was a huge win for Pakistan by all military expert accounts. This was all using Chinese technology.

Can not comment anything on this as it is not confirmed or denied from Indian side.It is only said that no pilot has been lost.

Trump said today that it was India that went to the US to solve the situation. CNN also reported this.

You can see Trump's change of wording on the recent tweets as well as India clearly denying role of Trump as mediator.India said the discussions took place directly between the two neighbours-in-conflict.

India isn't innocent either; they meddle a lot with Balochistani separatist groups in Pakistan. This is no hidden secret. These terrorists have killed Chinese engineers.

Is there any proof for this?I have not seen any.From what I have heard, they are supported by Afgans.Still no proof.

There has been a lot of false information out there, particularly from Indian media (many accounts said a pilot was also captured, and other cities such as Karachi were hit).It was very alarming to see such blatantly wrong accounts by mainstream Indian media.

Yes, the examples given are fake news,peddled by Indian media.They do not care anything besides high TRP.

You may find this tweet from John Spencer insightful: https://xcancel.com/SpencerGuard/status/1923417456565178568

sieve4• 1 year ago

So the ceasefire is gone. Done and dusted. Pakistan doing what it does best.

Good. It was a mistake in any case.

Pakistan and India have agreed 'full and immediate ceasefire'

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