If Google had a gun… (or – shoot your developers first, ask questions later)

http://pingjam.com/if-google-had-a-gun-or-shoot-your-developers-first-ask-questions-later/

by codeinvain • 14 years ago

15 18 14 years ago

codeinvain5• 14 years ago

This is a second post (of many more it seems...) in the saga of pingjam's play (store) adventures. In the past month we have been working our asses off because of google's store random bans and lack of communication.

Since Google is blatantly ignoring us - we would appreciate any comments and experience you have and are happy to share ours as well .

asto• 14 years ago

You should consider caching your post before putting it here. Google doesn't seem to have a cached version either and I'm unable to read your post because your site is down.

Cyranix• 14 years ago

Cached version has finally come through: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://...

hendrik-xdest2• 14 years ago

I don't think that a publicly available database means that you can use their data without consent. In Germany any collection of data might fall under the protection of copyright (or you could even patent a data collection, if I am not mistaken). Telephone books, for example, are free for anyone. But you can't go ahead and scan the pages and provide a service that parses through the data.

My guess is that the sources you use might be free to use but not necessarily free to integrate into a software product. Even if there are APIs available I would check your sources to see if there are special rules for commercial products or applications that access the data massively.

rcfox2• 14 years ago

In Canada, raw data (such as telephone book listings) are not copyrightable[0]. The graphics and layout of the phone book pages are, but the data is not.

[0] http://www.lmlaw.ca/copyright_raw_data.pdf

dllthomas• 14 years ago

Same in the US, as I understand it.

hendrik-xdest2• 14 years ago

I remember a German or European court ruling that states that as soon as a measurable effort is needed to collect the data it might be protected by copyright--could even be the effort to create a management or collection software. At least, I think that was the case but I might be mistaken. Also, I do not remember what kind of data collection this related to in the first place.

codeinvain5• 14 years ago

you are absolutely right, a part of our effort running a global service is complying with different countries rules and regulations.

brd• 14 years ago

Looking at this from Google's perspective I can't really blame them for what they're doing although its unfortunate they aren't being more forthcoming with you. Your app, while a great idea, has serious privacy ramifications and Google will receive a lot of the backlash if its covered by mainstream media in an unfavorable light.

codeinvain5• 14 years ago

on the other hand , google play approved white pages app which reveals not only your name but also your physical address.

further more to remove yourself from white pages listing you need to pay a monthly fee.

rcfox2• 14 years ago

"He told him that we could not share any non-public 3rd party contact information without the explicit consent of that 3rd party. Although this is much stricter than the strictest legal opinions we had – we had no choice but to abide."

So you reluctantly stopped stealing people's data? It's hard to have sympathy when you're complaining about Google protecting people's privacy!

codeinvain5• 14 years ago

No stealing what so ever ,see Elnor's response : http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4175896 .

jnorthrop• 14 years ago

"He told him that we could not share any non-public 3rd party contact information without the explicit consent of that 3rd party."

The European Data Directive, which Google is subject to, does prohibit this practice. Enforcement on this in the EU is sketchy but Google is already under the microscope in the EU for many other practices.

And their revision of only pulling from public sources isn't quite that clear. If they are aggregating that data then it could be considered transforming pseudo-anonymous data to something that is personally identifiable -- or at least the risk of that.

I don't agree with these laws and regulations and I can sympathize with the company but Google is really just protecting themselves.

codeinvain5• 14 years ago

yes but at what cost? , wouldn't it be better that google will have some sort of approval process like in the apple store. at least there you know where you stand.

chiph• 14 years ago

Welcome to working with large corporations. Not only does the left hand not know what the right hand is doing, the fingers are pretty much in the dark, too.

elnorr• 14 years ago

Thanks for the comments and don't get us wrong, we fully agree that everyone's privacy should be respected. This is why we started this endeavor by consulting a crack team of lawyers and by surveying a lot of users to understand where the line is drawn by both. We went for the less invasive option, and when all was said and done - almost all we did that exposed any 3rd party details was to show you the name of the person that is calling you. After all, if they are calling you they either want to share their name with you anyway or they are shady to begin with. Again no problem with having clear directions and following them. Huge problem with arbitrary, terminal decisions that come without dialogue or an opportunity to understand what is deemed wrong.

If Google had a gun… (or – shoot your developers first, ask questions later)

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