Why Dating Apps Don't Work Well

https://www.fairytrail.app/why-dating-apps-dont-work/

by taigeair • 2 years ago

6 27 2 years ago

Not to lead off sounding sour, but did I just read that they want strangers to book travel / adventures together? In hopes of maybe eventually dating? Provided half of the pair isn't a psychopath and kills the other? :)

Feels like a big ask.

raxxorraxor• 2 years ago

This is a form of dating I would much more likely choose, if I had to. Worst case is that you don't like each other but you still can have a nice holiday, perhaps then with people you meet locally. It is a bit crazy, but nobody can say you lack the effort. I had people move in my shared apartment without ever meeting me, so I believe the risk isn't too real. You have to take a risk or two in life and the chance of meeting a serial killer is pretty low.

To be honest, the people in my life with successful relationships often have in common that they never once dated in their lives. At least not to get to know a potential partner, they all have met through other means.

Of course not everybody is that lucky, but the people that do dating as a leisure activity and those that do not might simply not fit together and many only use online dating because they cannot find connections elsewhere. Perhaps I am lost in translation here, but none of those couples I know would ever say or have said "I am dating someone". They would do things together and maybe end up in a relationship. There is a difference and I think this approach might offer something better.

93po2• 2 years ago

i refuse to have a first date with any more commitment than drinks or coffee. way too many too-long dinner dates where leaving a clearly bad match is way too awkward

brokenalgo2• 2 years ago

Because they are designed to make finding/matching people impossible.

Match group should be torched to the ground with their exec team tied up inside.

ToucanLoucan• 2 years ago

This is true and you're right to say it. However much like other problematic software products in the attention economy, I don't know that there's really a solution. By definition: if a dating app (assuming it isn't a hookup one anyway) is doing it's job, it will lose two users with every "success" it achieves. Which means success for the user and success for the company are not just different, they are opposed. An attention-monetizing free service such as needs users, they need user numbers and user engagements, and if they lose users, especially women who are damn hard to get on these platforms in the first place, then they begin to lose value and lose the ability to make money.

And, even if we discard the notion that attention is being monetized, the presence of women as stated is essential to any of these dating apps' long term viability as a business. I think that's why there's this low-level constant outrage that exists with men who use them; they feel de-prioritized and discarded next to their female counterparts in the user base, because fundamentally, these platforms know they don't have to do shit to get male users. They will come, they will stay, regardless of what they're asked to do or deal with, and therefore they are not valuable to the platform and their needs, desires, and preferences are not catered to. As long as they can attract enough women to meet an emotional threshold for prospective male users, they'll come in droves, and probably spend money too.

PaulHoule5• 2 years ago

I'll say this.

There is a sense that people have gotten fed up with dating apps, here are two articles on it:

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2024/04/datin...

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/12/business/dating-apps-tind...

It's pretty clear here that a huge opportunity exists because here is a fundamental human need. Match and Bumble might not be able to meet it because they are trapped by their business model (see Clayton Christensen's theory of disruptive innovation) and have a lot of accumulated ill will.

I think AI is a factor in the burnout, the fact is that ChatGPT or Microsoft Copilot can do a lot better at ingratiating people than most of us, if the average person used a chatbot as their wingman and they'd probably do better. Personally I ask Copilot for advice on this sort of thing a lot, the act of putting my thoughts into words is helpful, the advice is as good as you'd get from a lot of people, and it feels good.

You can see this as a hellscape of profiles that look like they were written by ChatGPT and endless spam and fraud like Ashley Madison but with today's NLP a site could get a lot of insight into people's behavior and put some structure in. Right now I am trying to deepen a relationship and practicing doing little nice things for people because I don't have good habits in this area -- if a dating site is going to be successful people need to have a P.M.A. and need to be cultivating behaviors and attitudes that are helpful in relationships. Something like that could benefit you even if you don't get a match but if you do get a match is going to multiply the value you get from it.

brokenalgo2• 2 years ago

You explained exactly why apps should be apps and not business.

jfengel2• 2 years ago

I've heard this theory before, and it doesn't make sense to me.

Finding a good match is hard. The vast majority of relationships fail, most of them rather quickly.

I don't think dating apps need to go out of their way to preserve their user base. It sounds as if people believe that there's some perfect matching algorithm that the dating apps refuse to use, lest everybody suddenly get married.

Male and female users do end up being in conflict on dating apps -- the former getting too little attention, the latter getting too much. And the apps are rife with spammers and scammers, which are hard to clear out when the accounts are free. I think that suffices to explain why people get frustrated with dating apps.

sfmz• 2 years ago

My dating app idea is this: Men can only message 1 woman per day, but they get 1 more message coupon if they microblog about their day based on the premise that women are more interested in how men operate in the world than just good looks. If women don't respond after like 40 messages, then boot them off the platform because they are just using it for an ego boost with no intention of dating.

michaelbuckbee• 2 years ago

I don't know if this is exactly it, but your idea for designing a system that encourages fewer but much higher-quality interactions is a good one.

ThinkBeat• 2 years ago

In nearly all cases, a profile, blog / whatever is of little value the first thing that happens is they check the profile photo and that is it for the most part

PaulHoule5• 2 years ago

I think that (in general) is a good way to be thinking about it.

I have a friend who is interested in using settlements of either real or phony money to offer incentives and change people's behavior in online settings and I'm going to talk with him about applying this to dating tonight.

Some of the reason why it is easy to meet people when you are in school is that you are not just doing it one on one but you are in a group of people that share activities and interests and couples can break off but they have the support of the group from before they meet all the way to the wedding and beyond.

A site that builds a real community could capture all of this. Another thing to think about is habit change. I've written about a recent experience I've had and I've been thinking about what I can do to right now to help it develop and I know I need to get practice in showing gratitude, giving complements and doing little nice things because I'd like to be able to show my love.

On today's online dating sites on the other hand you are feeling ugly or harried or angry or frustrated and none of those those feelings are going to help you give and receive love.

digging2• 2 years ago

I understand the desire for asymmetry in a heteronormative context, but I think the only real solution is one that just encourages all users to feel more invested in forming genuine connections (e.g. microblogging or whatever).

I think Hinge actually had a pretty good system when I was using it a few years ago. It had a strict bio format, which required every used to answer exactly 3 questions (of their choice) - this format allowed me to identify people who cared about genuinely meeting someone, and had the depth of character to communicate well with me. The incentive to over-share is gone, because you're limited to 3 answers. The incentive to under-share is gone, because you know everyone is also sharing so you're not going to look desperate. People who couldn't or wouldn't give 3 interesting and honest answers were easily ruled out and a lot of the alluring "mystery" of those under-filled profiles was stripped away.

KenArrari3• 2 years ago

I like the idea of having limited but higher quality interactions.

Another way to encourage this I think is making it a paid service. Filters out anyone just using it to look at pictures or waste time.

I liked the bumble founders idea of having LLMs trained on peoples texts/social-media activity and having them talk to each other and then matching people based on that. Might be a good way to determine that one daily match.

borski• 2 years ago

So instead of human matchmakers, next step: AI-arranged marriage?

PaulHoule5• 2 years ago

I've been thinking about "dating" services that revolve around structured activities, pretty obviously chatting on OkCupid is for the birds but you'd imagine you could put people through activities that would build intimacy. I am thinking about things like Aron's 36 questions but this camping idea sounds great.

I recently had a "meet cute" with someone on the bus that was out of the blue, the next time we rode it was kindof awkward: after something like that for instance you might not want to sit right next to them because it would be too close.

The day after that she brought along a close friend and we hung out in a group and that's what happens most mornings, it is a no-stress way to hang out that doesn't put any pressure on me to be smart or funny or smooth or not put my foot on my mouth. When we ride back we often end up sitting in adjacent seats and talking just a little if at all but I really relish that because I get to enjoy her presence without the pressure that I need to do or be anything.

I can't imagine that we're not going to go on a "date" someday because clearly the attraction is there and we have shared interests to explore. I do know though by the time it happens we are going to actually know quite a bit about each other and already had quite a bit of closeness so if my heart is pounding it's not going to be out of anxiety.

I don't know if this method is repeatable or scalable but I think it's the right idea. I remember hanging out with friends in college and some couples would break out of the group and it seems we're somewhat deliberately recreating that experience for people who are a bit further along in life.

93po2• 2 years ago

Dating apps have problems for the businesses that own them or try to make them, but they still overall make a lot of money when you get it right. And the user experience, while full of annoying money grabs, is honestly perfectly functional if you're attractive and present yourself well to the people you want to attract. If you don't, that's not really a problem with the app, it's just a problem with not liking your dating experience.

I don't think you can claim they don't work well when the number one way people meet these days is via apps.

brap• 2 years ago

I keep reading about how dating apps don’t work, but at least from my own personal experience and from my friends’ experience, they work very well.

The key, I think, is to

1. live in a big city with lots of single people your age

2. pay (if you’re a guy)

I don’t consider myself anything special, but following these 2 steps I literally had more dates than I could handle (with women I actually wanted to meet). 3 of those ended up being long term 1y+ relationships.

BizarreByte• 2 years ago

So 1) have money, and 2) have money. We also don't know what you look like which is a hugely important factor, maybe even the most important with app based dating where the swiping decisions are made in fractions of a second.

I'm not trying to downplay your experience but these kind of anecdotes don't mean much, especially when we're missing so much information.

PaulHoule5• 2 years ago

The usual story is that 20% of the guys get 80% of the attention in online dating. If you are one of those guys it's the best thing since the swinging sixties.

KptMarchewa• 2 years ago

Being a paypig is my limit. Fortunately it's not expectation in my country.

KenArrari3• 2 years ago

I think it's interesting that there were websites like e-harmony that promised to match people based on personality tests but in the age of increasing ML/data-analytics/etc there hasn't been a bigger push to return to that, instead all match-making apps have converged on swiping on pictures.

digging2• 2 years ago

Because it's lower effort to use, especially for hot people, so that's where hot people will converge.

tgma• 2 years ago

The title is misleading. The article is not that dating apps don’t work well (they clearly work if you look at the stats for relationships). It’s that they haven’t cracked how to make dating apps be a good business for them.

Why Dating Apps Don't Work Well

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