US blocks British court from British territory

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cxe2v2mdg7vo

by defrost • 2 years ago

41 44 2 years ago

karol• 2 years ago

My guess is, this only scratches the surface of what goes in various military bases and research establishments around the world.

cturner• 2 years ago

This is a beat-up. The US has a lease on the territory, and it is their prerogative to control access. The British would not have let Chinese lawmakers into Kowloon during the lease. The US would not let Cuban lawmakers into Guantánamo Bay, also leased.

throwaway4good2• 2 years ago

“Leased”

throwaway4good2• 2 years ago

How can anyone think that Hong Kong new territories and Guantanamo, which were areas essentially taken by force and then had a dubious leasing agreement painted over them, is the same situation as an agreement between two formal allies?

bell-cot4• 2 years ago

This sounds like a prime example for arguing that our current international legal system is broken. The "territory" in question is a tiny, isolated island - which is a US/UK military base. The people are refugees from a vastly larger island, a thousand-ish miles away. Doubtless the military folks would prefer that civilian authorities quietly take the refugees off their hands, and away from their tiny island base.

But Because Laws, nothing sane is allowed to happen.

And meanwhile, the Britain's just-elected new PM, with a massive majority in the new Parliament, started his legal career as a human rights lawyer.

mytailorisrich• 2 years ago

Anything is allowed to happen in reality. The situation is the result of who wants or does not want to do what.

bell-cot4• 2 years ago

Technically, yes.

But when the legal system is working well, this kind of indefinite-prisoners-in-limbo crap does not happen.

ndsipa_pomu2• 2 years ago

And meanwhile, the Britain's just-elected new PM, with a massive majority in the new Parliament, started his legal career as a human rights lawyer.

I don't think that Starmer can do much for this situation even if it was on his list of priorities. Even if he declared the island(s) to be free from UK occupation, then the U.S. would still be blocking non-military people from accessing it.

bell-cot4• 2 years ago

I'd say that Starmer could do quite a bit...but unless he found a particularly clever solution, the political cost would be too high.

Leaving the bottom line the same, either way.

e-t-u• 2 years ago

UN decided couple of years ago that Diego Garcia is a part of Mauritius. Check the official UN map.

csomar• 2 years ago

That's the "international" law order for you. Some people will still use these words with a straight face.

cies5• 2 years ago

"rules based international order" (just as BS as "protecting democracy")

snovv_crash• 2 years ago

Possession is nine tenths of ownership.

j16sdiz• 2 years ago

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/28/un-court-rejec...

The Foreign Office stressed it had not been a party to the maritime court proceedings and so was under no requirement to comply with the ruling.

International law, ugh?

account42• 2 years ago

The UN also thinks that Taiwan is part of China so I would not be to quick to follow their judgement.

moomin2• 2 years ago

In short: UK has no place there, US has no place there. A whole bunch of refugees probably do have a place there but no-one cares about them. Also crimes are probably being committed over and above what I’ve just described.

In other words: situation normal in the Chagos Islands.

etothepii• 2 years ago

Why does UK have no place there?

The islands were uninhabited when settled by the French and following a peace treaty with France were transferred to the UK.

moomin2• 2 years ago

So your reasoning is based on facts that no longer apply and the moral heft of colonialism?

defrost4• 2 years ago

Brief history:

    Diego Garcia is an island of the British Indian Ocean Territory, a disputed overseas territory of the United Kingdom also claimed by Mauritius. It is a militarised atoll just south of the equator in the central Indian Ocean, and the largest of the 60 small islands of the Chagos Archipelago.

    Portuguese sailors under Pedro Mascarenhas were the first Europeans to discover the island, finding it uninhabited in 1512. After a 1786 British colony failed, the French began using the island as a leper colony and, starting in 1793, coconut cultivation by enslaved labor. It was transferred to British rule after the Napoleonic Wars. It was one of the "Dependencies" of the British Colony of Mauritius until the Chagos Islands were detached for inclusion in the newly created British Indian Ocean Territory (BIOT) in 1965.

More recently:

    Between 1968 and 1973, the Chagossian (Îlois) inhabitants were forcibly expelled from Diego Garcia by the UK Government so that a joint US/UK military base could be established on the island.

    In 2023, Human Rights Watch condemned the action as a crime against humanity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Garcia

PeterHolzwarth2• 2 years ago

Key is that:

"The Chagos Archipelago was uninhabited when first visited by European explorers, and remained that way until the French established a small colony on the island of Diego Garcia, composed of 50–60 men and "a complement of slaves"."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_the_Chagossians

meheleventyone• 2 years ago

The comment you're replying to mentions that.

brabel• 2 years ago

the Chagossian (Îlois) inhabitants were forcibly expelled from Diego Garcia by the UK Government

That's the kind of thing that the West did to become the dominant powers in the current world. It's easy to mistake the current system as having been responsible for that. Once you're at the top, you can afford yourself the luxury of acting morally, I suppose, as long as you're the one defining morality... and only while doing that does not go against your "security" or somtimes, making a few bucks, of course.

defrost4• 2 years ago

It's easy to mistake the current system as having been responsible for that.

A number of people commenting in this thread, including myself, were born before the expulsion.

This was an act of the current UK Westminster and US Washington systems.

cies5• 2 years ago

"In 2023, Human Rights Watch condemned the action as a crime against humanity."

Yet the BBC fails to mention this in their 2024 article, instead they use this language to describe the event: "Britain took control of the Chagos Islands"

fmajid• 2 years ago

In the 19th Century, the U.K. (and France, the US and others) militarily defeated China and imposed humiliating “unequal treaties” on it. Nowadays the US does the same to the U.K., e.g. an extradition treaty that gives US citizens far more leeway to fight extradition than the other way round. The occupation of Diego Garcia is just another example of the U.K. being America’s poodle.

cies5• 2 years ago

See how sneaky the language being used is crafted to not put blame on the UK:

"Britain took control of the Chagos Islands, of which Diego Garcia is part, from its then colony, Mauritius, in 1965. It went on to evict its population of more than 1,000 people to make way for the military base." -- BBC

They "took control" (sound quite nice) and "evicted" (probably also the nicest word they could find). The intend is also clear: kick out the natives to make a military base in a place of the world far from their home-island.

See how this language changes when Russia "takes control" of the Donbas. At least Russia claims to step up to rescue the Russian population of Ukraine that lives in a bordering region that Russia controlled not too long ago.

Hence I consider the BBC to be tax paid UK state propaganda, not much better or worse than RT.com in Russia.

beardyw2• 2 years ago

Whataboutism

A4ET8a8uTh0• 2 years ago

I respond instead of reflexively downvoting. This is not an argument. And even if that one line could be considered one, it is lazy and does not address the point OP is making.

blibble• 2 years ago

there weren't any natives as the islands were uninhabited when European explorers first encountered them

cies5• 2 years ago

At some point no humans existed on earth.

But when the UK "took control" (a.k.a. invaded) there were inhabitants that apparently had to be "evicted" (a.k.a. expelled or forcefully kicked out).

I believe the people that inhabit a place should have some say in their future.

jmclnx• 2 years ago

2036 ? With Climate Change, I doubt that island even support a military base on it then.

maxglute• 2 years ago

Always interesting to see how people try to spin Diego Garcia vs PRC in SCS. Chagos/Diego Garcia case another reason why US will never ratify UNCLOS. Reminder there's now actual ITLOS ruling (as in official UN) against UK vs Mauritius. Also reminder that there is no actual formal ruling (as in ITLOS/ICJ) against PRC for SCS - PCA PH vs PRC is not formal UNCLOS case since PRC not subject to optional arbituation clause - hence ITLOS has no formal position on the case. PCA has the legal status of a high school essay. Post ITLOS Chagos ruling, UK (by connection US) is now worse violator of UNCLOS/international law than PRC in SCS... as in actual UN international law, not make believe rules-based-order law. Extra spicy drama now US/UK can't even maintain the rule-based-order wank between friends.

onemoresoop• 2 years ago

[flagged] by CIA?

US blocks British court from British territory

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