Ozempic keeps wowing: trial data show benefits for kidney disease

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-01564-w

by pseudolus • 2 years ago

92 49 2 years ago

neverokay• 2 years ago

Ozempic? Or just eating less?

eganist4• 2 years ago

Probably the latter, but "just eating less" is next to impossible for a non-trivial minority of people much the way "just stopping heroin" would be for someone battling addiction.

An aid to help clear the noise in the brain seems to be unsurprisingly useful, then, in achieving these outcomes.

chatmasta• 2 years ago

Sure, but Ozempic is not the only drug that suppresses appetite. So if the underlying benefits are from “just eating less,” then the study should also examine the effects of other pharmaceutical interventions that suppress appetite.

globular-toast• 2 years ago

Just to hammer the point home, imagine suggesting a cure for heroin addiction is to amputate the arms so they can't shoot up. Then look up what gastric bypass surgery is.

For some reason we don't take food addiction seriously at all. You can't walk anywhere without seeing a picture of a Big Muck or something. Heroin addicts don't have to see their vice everywhere they go. Even cigarette addicts don't.

FooBarBizBazz• 2 years ago

"Just eating less" may be very difficult, psychologically, in the context of an otherwise stressful and distracting life. However, I find that if you are able to eliminate those issues and focus on your own health and diet -- a big "if", I will grant -- then it's actually not that hard, on its own. You get used to it.

pedalpete2• 2 years ago

It would be interesting to see a comparative study of glp1 agitators to intermittent fasting. It surprises me that people will spend huge amounts on a drug which makes them feel less full, rather than have the tiny amount of willpower it takes to just not eat.

hombre_fatal• 2 years ago

Don't be so fast to assume that your willpower isn't just from genetic luck. You might as well be surprised some people are short. I mean, look how much better your life is as someone tall.

We humans are very quick to assume our positive traits and outcomes come from conscious decisions to make things that way. It's why every successful person has a book about how they chose to become successful. They just worked hard. It's something we want to believe rather than admit anything came down to luck of the draw.

cco• 2 years ago

The common theme in normal weight individuals is their comparative lack of food drive, not an outsized capacity for willpower.

When you talk to "skinny" people you'll hear things like they just forgot to eat or I just had a couple bites of cake then felt full/had enough.

Alternatively when you speak with heavier people you'll realize that they're white knuckling their entire lives (because calories are so abundant). On average they're actually exerting more willpower around food than skinnier people.

Not everyone of course, there are folks in either camp, but at population scale lack of food drive is what keeps people skinny in a calorie rich, low activity environment.

pedalpete2• 2 years ago

I definitely could have worded this better. I'm NOT suggesting that people who struggle with weight just don't have willpower. I was suggesting that it would be interesting to see a study comparing 2 modalities.

nullserver• 2 years ago

My wife takes full dose. Shes lost 60 pounds in six months. I have been taking the smallest dose.

Normally i can eat a full meal, and be hungrier at the end of it, then when i started.

For a couple of days after taking the small dose. I get full after a small amount. Then feel full for most of the day. I need to go up to a higher dose as this effect fades before next dose.

GeoAtreides• 2 years ago

Normally i can eat a full meal, and be hungrier at the end of it, then when i started.

how?! what exactly are you eating that's making you feel hungrier, not full?

ilikeitdark• 2 years ago

I'm starting to think somebody has a bunch of truckloads of this stuff they gotta unload.

KptMarchewa• 2 years ago

Yes, Novo Nordisk. Largest EU company.

im3w1l• 2 years ago

There is a global shortage.

refurb2• 2 years ago

You'd be wrong. On multiple accounts - people can't "fake" clinical trial results like this to sell medication.

And there is global shortage right now.

killingtime74• 2 years ago

nah, OP is an internet expert, lets just listen to them instead of this study

JPLeRouzic• 2 years ago

people can't "fake" clinical trial results like this to sell medication

Many clinical trials are controversial when they are positive.

Most clinical trials are subcontracted. The subcontractor has a deep interest in pleasing his client. You can select patients at the beginning of the trial, or during the trial you can report that a patient with a "bad" result, just dropped out of the study. And indeed in most clinical trials there is no strong adverse effects (just weak) reported except when patients die.

Moreover, the hospitals that implement the trial often only do the minimum to satisfy the principal investigator

Just look at the field of neurodegenerative diseases or ask patients how negligently they have been treated.

andrewstuart• 2 years ago

I wonder how long until these medicines are freely available and no longer in shortage.

It’s encouraging that there is competition.

I’m guessing it might be three or four years till I could just go the the chemist and get it.

magicpin• 2 years ago

It’s pennies on the dollar if you go to a peptide specialist and measure out individual syringes instead of using the auto injectors.

guiambros3• 2 years ago

Here's a potentially better alternative to Ozempic: glucose control.

Let people buy CGMs without a prescription, increase education about healthy habits from the point of view of minimizing glucose spikes [1][2], and the importance of metabolism for everything, including physical and mental health [3].

Yes, diet and exercise helps, but what you eat is also important, as well as when, and in what order. Once you learn about it (and have a CGM showing the effects in your body in realtime) you can't unsee it.

[1] Glucose Revolution, by Jessie Inchauspe https://www.amazon.com/Glucose-Revolution-Life-Changing-Powe...

[2] Brain Energy, by Dr. Christopher M. Palmer MD - https://brainenergy.com/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/advancing-psychiatry...

joezydeco• 2 years ago

It's on the way. Abbott (makers of the Freestyle Libre CGM) are trying to get a general use version sold under the Lingo brand name.

https://www.abbott.com/corpnewsroom/products-and-innovation/...

kamikaz1k• 2 years ago

Why is it a better alternative? Does more data actually make a difference for something like this? Do you know anyone on Ozempic?

tpush3• 2 years ago

This is nonsense. There's no evidence that "glucose control" is helpful for anyone but actual diabetics. Glucose spikes are completely normal physiology and nothing to be concerned about unless your actually diabetic.

This whole "all sickness is metabolic disorder, caused by glucose" is a fringe grifter youtube quack theory. On the other hand, semaglutides have actual science behind them.

guiambros3• 2 years ago

There's no evidence...

I just pointed to an entire book written by a psychiatrist and Harvard professor, with citations to hundreds of studies linking metabolism to metal disorders, insulin resistance, the effect of diet on mitochondrial dysfunction, and your argument is "trust me bro, it's quack theory"?

Don't you think you're being overly reductionist and close-minded, without even reading the evidence provided?

nate_meurer2• 2 years ago

Echoing the other reply, there is a raging scientific debate between the energy balance model and the carbohydrate insulin model of obesity and diabetes. There are large cohorts of very smart scientists on both sides of this debate.

gigel82• 2 years ago

It sounds like a miracle drug until you hear prolonged use turns your stomach into stone. They haven't been around long enough to fully understand the side effects unfortunately.

kelipso• 2 years ago

I'm not going to explain it but "ozempic" sounds exactly like the type of wonder drug that turns out be really unfortunate years later.

Ozempic keeps wowing: trial data show benefits for kidney disease

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