Awesome-Linux-Minimalism

https://github.com/knassar702/awesome-linux-minimalism

30 16 2 years ago

jrm4• 2 years ago

The quality of this list feels greatly diminished by the very first bit about "no systemd?"

It was good to question systemd, but given its performance, transparency, and general ability to mostly stay out of the way, I wouldn't bring it up re: "minimalism," in the way the rest of the list is pretty minimalist.

Ethee• 2 years ago

Agreed, this feels like someone put an argument about tabs vs spaces at the top of the description for an editor. Like yes, you will have to choose whether to use systemd, but the argument for or against systemd doesn't feel like it belongs here in a list of 'minimalist user space programs/services'. From my perspective the only lens you can view this through that's even closely related is that systemd doesn't follow the Unix philosophy of 'do one thing and do it well', but that's not exactly an argument for or against minimalism. I'd argue that almost everything systemd brings to the table in a default setup are all things you'd need anyway, minimalist or otherwise. They're just all handled by one overarching service, which I think is the real argument against systemd.

constantcrying5• 2 years ago

Agreed, this feels like someone put an argument about tabs vs spaces.

This is not true. That is an aesthetic discussion. People dislike systemd because it is insanely bad software.

I'd argue that almost everything systemd brings to the table in a default setup are all things you'd need anyway, minimalist or otherwise.

That is legitimately insane. No, you don't need the things systemd brings to the table. Systemd replicates multiple parts of what your systemd already does. E.g. it replicates the fstab by providing mount units. No normal user needs those, fstab works just fine, yet for some reason they include it anyway. Systems now can also boot your system, again it is repeatedly implementing already existing functionality. Same for DNS, surely you absolutely need an init systemd to handle DNS...

That is why people dislike it and why it is obviously not "minimalist" in any way, replicating already existing functionality is the exact opposite of

They're just all handled by one overarching service, which I think is the real argument against systemd.

No. The argument is that systemd is really bad software which repeatedly reinvents already existing OS features in its own way, even if those features are near unrelated to an init system.

I don't care about "Unix philosophy", no system should be designed like systemd. People complain because it is badly not because it violates some barely defined rules about what "Unix should be".

microbass• 2 years ago

It's particularly strange, given NixOS is recommended in the alternate (no systemd) list. NixOS does indeed use systemd.

constantcrying5• 2 years ago

Systemd is really bad and if you have a list listing minimalist stuff everything that uses it should be excluded. Having it at the top is a good thing.

Yes, systemd stays out of the way of most users since most users interact with it in exactly two ways starting/stopping and enabling/disabling services. Every other init system has a near identical API for those two things.

This does not expose the user to the underlying insanity and the web of nonsense when you actually have to "develop" for systemd. Having to do mostly that for a living made me hate my job and significantly pushed me towards quitting, which I eventually did. Yes, it is that bad. Avoid it.

eternityforest3• 2 years ago

That's been pretty much the opposite of my experience, but I can definitely see why it would make a minimalist, or a natural first principles thinker miserable.

mrd3v0• 2 years ago

It is a low quality outdated list, but systemd should be on top of any minimalist list. It is the most violating Linux software of KISS/UNIX principle. So if anything putting it on top does validate the list.

throwaway7356• 2 years ago

Well, they link to suckless for reasons why systemd is bad. So they most likely have no idea what they are talking about as suckless is known for being mostly factually incorrect.

For example, suckless claims "pid 1 does DNS" and link to https://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/tree/NEWS?id=2d... to prove this. That NEWS entry is about software not part of pid 1, but I guess reading is incompatible with a minimalist approach.

cyclotron3k• 2 years ago

This should be called Refusenix

Awesome-Linux-Minimalism

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