Abnormal brain structure seen in children with developmental language issues

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2024-03-abnormal-brain-children-developmental-language.html

by wglb • 2 years ago

66 73 2 years ago

dukeofdoom3• 2 years ago

I remember a few years back reading how cellphone signals will cause mental disturbances. I'm not claiming it has, though sometimes I do think the world is going kind of bonkers.

Just that eventually we will definitely stumble into something like this. Just like the Romans were oblivious drinking from lead pipes was causing their mental problems.

If there's a mass psychosis event, would the people under going it even realize it was happening.

We went from 1/150 to 1/36 Children with Autism in the last 20 years. Go back further, and it was practically unheard of.

luxuryballs2• 2 years ago

EMF could indeed be the next asbestos. The Invisible Rainbow is on audible and worth a listen, regardless of any surrounding well poison about the author (or maybe because of it.) There’s some very interesting history of electricity’s role in society starting from the mid 1700s.

sho_hn• 2 years ago

I hope you don't mind me pointing out the delicious irony of recommending an audiobook (requiring a mass communication network and electronic playback device) to sample a tome apparently on the subject of electricity invisibly killing birds and sickening people, when it is also available in dead-tree form.

closetnerd• 2 years ago

I swear this comment comes across as a bot.

dukeofdoom3• 2 years ago

I'm not sure why you would think that. There's all kinds of substances that humans take (Alcohol, drugs) that change their mental state. Why is the idea that environmental pollutant could be doing the same, so rejected by people. Is it an ego thing ?

bamboozled3• 2 years ago

Well we more recently had lead in petrol. Hard to believe we made that same mistake twice.

I agree regarding the psychosis thing. When I read the comments section of politically themed YouTube videos I actually get scared how insane people have become.

asveikau2• 2 years ago

Psychosis has always been common. I believe single digit percentages of people experience it. If you know 100 people, maybe 1-4 of them experience psychosis. I have been close to two people who do.

One of the major differences about why it's so visible right now is that the internet is enabling psychotic people to find like-minded psychotic people and form communities. Qanon is one example. "Gang stalking" is another. They find people with the same delusions and riff off of one another.

In the olden days, one individual suffering from something like this can stay isolated, and their ideas do not travel that far. Today, they can find their tribe online. They can have meetups. They can act out their delusions en masse.

dukeofdoom3• 2 years ago

I'm have a feeling the whole Qanon thing was orchestrated by government actors. The whole things reads like a scheme to lead people off track. Not that psychosis is not involved.

hibikir• 2 years ago

While I can't quite say how big each effect is, it's undeniable that a big part of the difference in autism diagnosis is just the fact that we test at all. I grew up in the 80s, where the level for someone to be diagnosed with autism required being pretty close to non verbal. But if I look at my old classmates and think of people with significant sensory issues, social dysfunction and such, it's easy to imagine that today, a lot of them would be diagnosed as having at least some form of Asperger's today. Just like we had clearly gay kids, and others with behavior that today would indicate gender dysphoria. The kids with ADHD symptoms? They were just too active and refused to concentrate, no diagnosis outside of the most extreme cases.

We have different standards and different levels of attention. We don't just re-diagnose adults, so it's possible that there is a higher rates today. Maybecaused by something you mention, or straight out selection. Still,ignoring the differences in diagnosis standards is going to get us, at the very least, exaggerated conclusions.

verisimi3• 2 years ago

Maybe it's the definition of "normal" that is the real problem?

If I use a pebble as my metric, some things we think of as 'small' would have to be counted as 'big'. The idea of abnormal is all wrong imo, but just the idea brings constraints with it.

Aurornis• 2 years ago

This study is in very young children who haven’t had cellular phones yet. RF radiation falls off very rapidly as you get away from the cell phone.

The increased rate of autism is largely due to increased diagnosis. Autistic people existed long ago, but the diagnosis of Autism obviously didn’t exist in the distant past.

ardaoweo2• 2 years ago

I agree. It's likely common that children with ADHD or autism diagnosis also have parents with such condition, but they were simply never diagnosed. At least in my family's case it's quite evident, though it took me a while to recognize.

Duwensatzaj• 2 years ago

There’s also some non-environmental reasons.

1) Increased diagnosis due to

A) Increased awareness of the issue for both parents and medical staff. I think that one is clearly true.

B) Rational response to educational incentives around relaxed testing for those diagnosed with syndromes. Extra testing time is big. During the Varsity Blues scandal it came out that you could buy paperwork for accommodations for around $5000. Or parents might see a legitimate issue and testing and in-school accommodations convince them that it’s worth getting their child diagnosed.

C) Merging of Aspergers into autism.

2) Increased assortative mating for those with autism or those with autism risk. Some evidence here https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.28.358895v1

As to why it might be increasing?

A) Collapse of traditional paths to marriage. If you’re less likely to meet mates by meeting them at church or other community events with a more wide spread selection of people, are you more likely to meet someone else on the spectrum?

B) Increased career rewards for those with autistic tendencies, so less need to find a non-autistic spouse.

sph• 2 years ago

While you make very good points, I think as society we are quite quick at discounting unknown unknowns in this case. Science and diagnostic methods have advanced a lot, but it is not at all improbable that there is some kind of man-made factor that also caused an increase in incidence of autism (or any other modern chronic disease, such as ADHD like I am). Being an unknown unknown, we literally cannot know until x decades later we find out, "ah yes, we used this chemical everywhere that had a measurable developmental effect on newborn. Whoopsie". Yet everyone keeps saying that's nonsense, let alone insulting and insensitive to even suggest that's the case.

I am not saying there is proof for the contrary, mind you, just science and laymen should avoid the hubris of thinking we haven't made a mistake along the way. It would not be the first time. Radium in toothpaste, cigarettes for sore throat, cocaine in health tonics, DDT, teflon, and the other hundred teratogen chemicals we have given pregnant women over the decades.

mkl95• 2 years ago

We went from 1/150 to 1/36 Children with Autism in the last 20 years. Go back further, and it was practically unheard of.

Sounds like doctors got better at diagnosing people on the spectrum.

BobbyTables22• 2 years ago

Some diseases have guaranteed diagnosis rates…

For example, osteoporosis is diagnosed based on how many standard deviations one is away from the mean.

In other words, they aren’t diagnosing an actual medical issue — they are simply guaranteeing a particular rate of incidence!!!

chaxor• 2 years ago

The cell phone study literature you may be thinking of is on certain types of gliomas. There are also studies on other cancers in different tissues showing similar findings, for which the common link appears to be the cell emission.

There is a decent amount of evidence around this, though of course there are some assumptions made that are difficult to show directly (such as RF causing changes over intermittent use for years on living tissue from direct observations of hypothesized mechanisms, either RNA, protein or otherwise.). The typical argument is 'it is significantly altered in individuals that use devices more, has a "dose/time-dependent" effect, and convincing ipsilateral patterning', paired with 'there are changes in cell behavior under RF in vitro'. So a leap made is sticking the two together, but it's not a completely crazy one.

el_benhameen• 2 years ago

I’m genuinely interested in the evidence. Do you have any of the studies you’re referencing handy? I’ve done a general search, but so far I haven’t see anything significant.

dennis_jeeves22• 2 years ago

cellphone signals will cause mental disturbances.

I would think it goes way beyond that long term.

Just like the Romans were oblivious drinking from lead pipes was causing their mental problems.

We are worse than the Romans in that regard, there is literature that suggests, that in general man made EMF waves are not safe and yet, immediate convenience trumps over any concerns of safety as with may other thing that people use. Bring up the subject and you will be labeled a pseudoscience indulger.

ineedaj0b13• 2 years ago

I’ve got one of these brains. Dyslexic. I still to this day, cannot hear what syllables are in words. ‘Cat’, 1? I hear 2.

I cannot understand when I mispronounce words. I get corrected often and repeat back the correction but it sounds like what I said the first time.

I have a fantastic memory, a great imagination, and nonstop dreams during the night. I don’t enjoy the dreams anymore, I’m pretty bored of them now that I know what they probably do mechanically.

Not sure if I’ve gotten any benefit out of it. I think the memory might be in the family as default and the other changes I noted could be normal variations.

BiteCode_dev• 2 years ago

But you write and read fine apparently? I always thougth it was linked.

ineedaj0b13• 2 years ago

When I write I leave out a lot ‘the’ and ‘a’ and ‘an’. I have to edit what I write often (and I usually still don’t notice them missing).

I have trouble reading when I’m tired. Or fully awake making out handwriting.

I have many years of practice adding a’s, the’s, and you’s - people will ignore everything you write if you come across as mentally subpar.

verisimi3• 2 years ago

I don’t enjoy the dreams anymore, I’m pretty bored of them now that I know what they probably do mechanically.

Why would you think that you know what the dreams are? Could you tell the rest of us please? Perhaps you are coming at this from a materialistic perspective?

I personally don't think there is anything straightforward about dreams. Whether you take a 'spiritual' approach (have you ever had a deja vu?) or a psychoanalytic view (messages from the subconscious, whatever that is) or some other perspective, there is nothing mechanistic or boring in dreams for me.

mylastattempt• 2 years ago

Just pitching in my 2 cents here, and not sure if it is what the parent commenter meant:

When I "realized" that dreams and dejavu's are all, litteraly just in your head, and just memories and visualizations that your brain is connecting together, I realized that reality is the same. You're just getting signals and processing them. Wether they come from outside ("real") or from within yourself, it doesn't really matter as long as you can tell the difference.

what I appreciated about the realization of dejavu and dreams being what they are, was that it gave me a much firmer grasp and believe that I can control my feelings and escape to a little fantasy where this worlds rules dont apply. And also accept that when you're just feeling shit, it's fine for a while, just some chemicals not playing ball.

ineedaj0b13• 2 years ago

I can tell you but it’s a bit depressing. So turn back yea who are happy! Don’t read this. I thought it was something spiritual/mystical when I was younger and I liked that a lot more! And if you wanna keep enjoying dreams collapse my comment right now!!!

Here’s the boring nightmare: so… your mind is thinking what comes next? What comes next? And it’s corrected repeatedly by information from the eyes and ears. Maybe the nose. It constantly corrects and that’s your ‘experience’.

When you dream the system is still running; just no correction from the eyes

so you see a man in your dream and your brain goes -> what’s next? And it’ll take a guess. If good: nicer dream. If bad: bad(der) dream. Frankly, it’s usually something (seemingly) random which counts as neutral.

When wacky things happen your eye input isn’t correcting, so things get pretty wild or tame depending on how good your brains prediction is.

Your brain is going through scenarios with no correcting input.

Since I realized this 8-9 years ago I’ve been trying to prove this wrong to myself.

I wish it was spiritual or mystical but it’s pretty conclusively my deluded half asleep mind doing this. I have said goodbye to loved ones in dreams, a physically impossible scenario and it’s like your living it, just no reality correction from the eyes or ears.

Most people forget their dreams, but I get 4-6 a night EVERY damn night and they are like being awake!

ps. If anyone knows how to reduce dreaming please leave a comment! I don’t mind dreaming, but I envy falling asleep and waking up 7-8 hours in the future ready for the next day.

marconaut2• 2 years ago

I would like to randomly chime in here regarding antidepressants and dreams.

On Prozac I sleep well but have 100% formulaic dreams. I don't like them. Each one is a mildly to moderately annoying situation that I cannot escape from.

For example, I'm in a building or neighborhood and I want to get away from some antagonist or who knows what. Using much effor and willpower I sort of get away but in that instant it resets and I'm back to getting away.

Citalopram (Celexa) though.....those dreams were the opposite. Wonderful and enjoyable with a bit of flying. Lucid too, I often realized I was in a dream and learned to manipulate it at will as well as some flying.

jan_Inkepa• 2 years ago

I still to this day, cannot hear what syllables are in words. ‘Cat’, 1? I hear 2.

What syllables do you hear? (I'm assuming you have English as a mother tongue?)

Sammi2• 2 years ago

His mind emphasises the consonants instead of the vowels.

thaumasiotes2• 2 years ago

I still to this day, cannot hear what syllables are in words. ‘Cat’, 1? I hear 2.
I cannot understand when I mispronounce words. I get corrected often and repeat back the correction but it sounds like what I said the first time.

Interestingly, both of these 'symptoms' are completely normal, for people learning a second language.

gravescale• 2 years ago

Especially from languages that don't have the same final and consonant cluster options that English does. For example Richard in Chinese is commonly transliterated as Lichade (lee-char-duh), even though it's only two syllables in English, and Charles is Cha'ersi (char-err-suur).

braaileb• 2 years ago

I'm like this too and I've found I thrive with autonomy and burn out in rigid environments.

potatowaffle2• 2 years ago

I cannot understand when I mispronounce words. I get corrected often and repeat back the correction but it sounds like what I said the first time.

I have the exact same problem.

I had troubles learning pronunciations when I was a kid, but I never had other learning problems.

As an adult, I struggled enough with pronunciation that I consulted two hearing specialists to determine if there were any issues with my ears. It turns out my hearing is fine.

Is it possible for someone to get a diagnosis for dyslexic based on pronunciation problems only?

I must say I am relieved to finally find someone who shares my experience.

ineedaj0b13• 2 years ago

You might be able to be diagnosed, but there’s no medication or cure. You can get extra time on tests if you’re younger.

You can Google dyslexic signs. I think last time I looked auditory processing anomalies and the retina or lens was oddly shaped in 95% of dyslexics. Dyslexic is also an umbrella term for a bunch of things so you’ll have to sort through to find your flavor.

Best fix is a good nights sleep. Also make sure you move closer to speech you want to comprehend and the people you interact with most enunciate and speak at a good volume (too many people speak poorly and could use 2 weeks of beginner theater classes)

BobbyTables22• 2 years ago

I’ve always wondered about how language is taught.

Kids are taught that “cat” phonetically is “c-a-t”. Almost sounds like three syllables at that point. Do that with other words and one will quickly question how many syllables are in everything!!

I’m not dyslexic but I feel like the way we teach language is broken.

asveikau2• 2 years ago

My experience is that English speakers are terrible at knowing how many syllables there are in a word. I think it has a lot to do with how our vowels are. Some vowels like /i/ tend to get their own syllable in places where most languages would blend it into an adjacent vowel and maybe make it into /j/. Other times what we think of as a single vowel is actually 2-3 vowels.

ardaoweo2• 2 years ago

It's absolutely fascinating how differences in brain structure can cause a wide variety of conditions. Somehow I was linguistically (especially reading and writing) way above average in my childhood, but suck at mathematics and motor skills. Due to my mother's health condition my brain was scanned after I was born, and they found some abnormalities with left lateral ventricle. Apparently it's located near basal ganglia, which makes me wonder if the abnormality has a connection to these conditions.

fuzzfactor• 2 years ago

What is "abnormal" anyway?

"Unusual" is probably just as accurate a description.

How about "developmental language issues"?

Does that cover everything including far above average development? Seems like as important an issue as any.

The most highly developed might just be the most abnormal extreme outlier after all.

Abnormal brain structure seen in children with developmental language issues

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