Cockpit mishap seen as likely cause of plunge on Latam Boeing 787

https://www.wsj.com/business/airlines/cockpit-mishap-might-have-caused-plunge-on-latam-boeing-787-ee3dd7b4

by gnicholas • 2 years ago

43 37 2 years ago

lqet3• 2 years ago

Here is a video of that switch in operation:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vvlDYAPs3X0

To me, this seems entirely plausible, even if the movement is relatively slow. Do pilots have their lunch tray on their lap (between the stomach and the controls) when they eat? Maybe the pilot asked the flight attendant to move the seat back so that they could eat comfortably (as they obviously cannot reach that control themselves), and it was moved in the wrong direction accidentally?

KineticLensman• 2 years ago

Not commenting on this specific case, but it is possible for things held (or not) by pilots to affect the controls. An RAF Voyager (strategic lift aircraft based on the A330) dived 4000ft because the pilot was using a personal camera throughout the flight and it got stuck between his seat and the joystick, and his failure to admit it caused an accident investigation that temporarily grounded the entire fleet [0], [1].

[0] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/revealed-raf...

[1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39153163

wkat42423• 2 years ago

It's also happened to me once that something was dropped and got wedged behind the rudder pedal, blocking its movement. Tiny GA aircraft and we noticed it during the start-up check (when you check the full range of the flight controls). The checklist did its job. But if it had dropped during flight it could have been really dangerous.

I can imagine it can happen even in more professional circles.

sokoloff• 2 years ago

A firefighting helo and crew was lost due to an iPad: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P0N15ihORHA

throw0101b• 2 years ago

Investigators from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) have demonstrated that an Apple iPad likely jammed against the co-pilot’s left pedal prior to the fatal crash of a Rotak Helicopter Services Chinook in Idaho last year.

* https://verticalmag.com/news/dropped-ipad-implicated-in-fata...

* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36724736

danbruc3• 2 years ago

That switch almost seems to be made for being pressed accidentally - pretty big and seemingly easy to accidentally run into. I guess the big part behind the headrest is the mentioned cover and should be down with a pilot in the seat making the switch inaccessible? And I guess this button is required to get in and out of the seat and that is why they made it so big and easy to access?

EDIT: Better video [1], that switch is not easy to press, I completely misinterpreted the video.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9VkV9RS-PI&t=45s

boloust• 2 years ago

What you're looking at in the video isn't actually the switch, it's the switch cover.

Behind the cover is a rocker switch that moves the seat, but it's not visible in this video.

It's extremely unlikely just "running into it" was the issue, but accidentally moving the seat in the wrong direction is somewhat plausible, especially if the cover is obscuring the switch.

iamflimflam1• 2 years ago

Reminds me of the far size "Wings fall off" cartoon.

stavros2• 2 years ago

I don't understand what the purpose of a switch that someone else, but not the person sitting in the seat can operate is?

danbruc3• 2 years ago

I would guess that it might be necessary to move the empty seat forward to access things that would otherwise be blocked by the retracted seat. That also means you have to be able to get it back later and this might also be needed if you have to pull an incapacitated pilot out of his seat. There probably has to be another switch for the pilot to move the seat forward, it would seem quite cumbersome to use that one for getting into and out of the seat.

HekeHakkeri• 2 years ago

There's probably a second switch you can operate while seated.

beej712• 2 years ago

Blancolirio, a YouTube airline pilot, talked about this on his channel.

If you're the pilot trying to get into the seat, you'd normally have to reach for the regular seat controls which are farther forward and kind of awkward to reach from behind. But with this switch you can draw the seat all the way back so that you can climb into it easily.

beej712• 2 years ago

Blancolirio, a YouTube Boeing pilot, said that yes, they ate with their food tray on their lap. He added, somewhat enviously it seemed to me, that Airbus pilots get a tray table due to their controls being off to the side.

amatix• 2 years ago

https://archive.is/uxPdY

some1else• 2 years ago

Interesting to see that the passenger in the video contradicts that explanation with his testimony of the pilot saying the instruments went blank for a few seconds.

lqet3• 2 years ago

The pilot might not have given the true reason to passengers.

imglorp2• 2 years ago

I find the dark screen report persuasive because there's an air worthiness directive against that 787 which will cause the reset of flight control l computers. That would be consistent with both the dark screens story and the loss of control, if true.

wkat42423• 2 years ago

Would they actually lie though? That's not very professional.

ThePowerOfFuet• 2 years ago

https://archive.ph/uxPdY

JonChesterfield2• 2 years ago

That the first port of call is to blame the people on board is completely expected. This one is interesting because the explanation is "our flagship aircraft has a kill-everyone-onboard switch on the pilot chair that someone pushed".

That's not totally reassuring from Boeing. I guess it adds to the accumulating reasons to never get on one of their aeroplanes.

gruez2• 2 years ago

This one is interesting because the explanation is "our flagship aircraft has a kill-everyone-onboard switch on the pilot chair that someone pushed".

Wait till you hear about the yoke, or any of the other flight controls.

JonChesterfield2• 2 years ago

I suppose opinion is divided on whether the pilot should be able to crash at will. There's a copilot involved partly on those grounds.

Somewhere there's a flow chart missing an exclusive or on adjusting the seat position and putting the plane into a dive. And another one that failed to put the control out of the way of people walking around.

rootusrootus3• 2 years ago

It's a necessary switch in the right location and protected by a cover. Of all the controls on the flight deck, this is pretty low on my list of concerns. I bet nearly all similar large aircraft have something pretty much equivalent, given the obvious use case.

lostlogin2• 2 years ago

this is pretty low on my list of concerns.

It’s probably quite far up the list for those who ended up smashing into the ceiling. Assuming this was the cause, it’s a problem, though maybe less so than other shite Boeing systems in play at the moment (eg, the de-ice situation).

Cockpit mishap seen as likely cause of plunge on Latam Boeing 787

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