Sycamore Gap: New life springs from rescued tree

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-68497720

by sohkamyung • 2 years ago

81 39 2 years ago

OliveMate• 2 years ago

It's nice to know that there's a group of dedicated people in the National Trust who focus on preserving heritage trees.

If coppicing (letting the stump grow shoots back out) doesn't work, hopefully these cuttings are able to do it instead.

card_zero6• 2 years ago

It was a nice tree, but preserving genetic material from famous trees is just silly. I don't think anybody would be able to pick out a clone of the Sycamore Gap tree out from an identity parade of other sycamore saplings, because it's just a sycamore, and likewise Isaac Newton's apple tree is just an apple tree, of the Flower of Kent variety - preserving this one makes more sense, because it's not a popular variety, being "mealy, and sub-acid, and of generally poor quality by today's standards". But the 2,500 year old yew is just a yew, and is very far from being the oldest in the country, and its descendants and clones, of course, aren't old at all, so they kind of lack the whole point of the original tree.

There's a sort of superstition like sympathetic magic going on here, where the powers of objects literally rub off on things they come into contact with. It's culturally very weird, but so is the idea of "a famous tree" in the first place. Maybe turning its DNA into a celebrity as well makes a sort of crazy sense.

Engineering-MD2• 2 years ago

I agree objectively there is nothing special about the tree or its clones/seedlings, or the other trees mentioned. However, I disagree it’s a silly sympathetic magic. It’s symbolism to help people deal with negative events and maintain a symbolic link. Realistically huge amounts of humanity are only symbolic links. Objectively who cares if someone is buried here, or this bit of metal is the crown of the royal family? But from a symbolic point of view they are important. If grafting/seedings weren’t available, they would have just planted another tree, but using the same DNA or the offspring has greater meaning and helps reinforce the narrative.

card_zero6• 2 years ago

Yeah, although this stuff varies from culture to culture. Here's Douglas Adams visiting a 14th century temple in Kyoto:

I was told it hadn’t weathered well at all, and had in fact been burned to the ground twice in this century.
“So it isn’t the original building?” I had asked my Japanese guide. “But yes, of course it is,” he insisted, rather surprised at my question.
“But it’s been burned down?”
“Yes.”
“Twice.”
“Many times.”
“And rebuilt.”
“Of course. It is an important and historic building.”
“With completely new materials.”
“But of course. It was burned down.”
“So how can it be the same building?”
“It is always the same building.”
I had to admit to myself that this was in fact a perfectly rational point of view, it merely started from an unexpected premise. The idea of the building, the intention of it, its design, are all immutable and are the essence of the building. The intention of the original builders is what survives. The wood of which the design is constructed decays and is replaced when necessary. To be overly concerned with the original materials, which are merely sentimental souvenirs of the past, is to fail to see the living building itself.
I couldn’t feel entirely comfortable with this view, because it fought against my basic Western assumptions, but I did see the point.

PaulRobinson• 2 years ago

Hard disagree on apple trees.

Every "Granny Smith" you've ever eaten is fruit from a cloned tree, cloned from the original Granny Smith tree which grew in the 19th century in New South Wales in Australia. This is because the fruit produced by apple trees change with each generation. If you want _that_ apple fruit, you need to clone it (via grafting).

I can therefore see why - if you believe that Newton was inspired by a falling apple - why you'd want that specific fruit to be available and therefore you'd graft a cutting and clone. If you didn't, that apple's taste, look and texture would be lost forever.

card_zero6• 2 years ago

Yeah, I thought there was something special about apple trees, but I couldn't remember what. Apparently they're "extreme heterozygotes", which means their evolved tactic is to really roll the dice hard with each generation, and so they don't "breed true".

vr464• 2 years ago

Yes, and that specific tree was cloned by grafting, and you can see one of them in Cambridge.

zellyn• 2 years ago

By this logic, most things we do because of sentimentality and feeling, which many consider to be exactly those things that make us human, are “just silly”.

card_zero6• 2 years ago

Yes.

ljm• 2 years ago

Every culture has its rituals, traditions, and indeed quirks. The preservation of history in each culture seems to be universally consistent.

What I find interesting is that often this is respected when observing other cultures from the outside, but when it comes to our own culture, or a very familiar one, it can often be dismissed or taken for granted.

I suppose some might find it silly, but when it comes to culture and identity I think this stuff is quite symbolic of what is considered important and much more positive and thoughtful than what you might assume from current affairs and politics. A few hundred years later and this will simply be part of the fabric of the long history of the island.

pvaldes• 2 years ago

preserving genetic material from famous trees is just silly

Giving the correct message sometimes is important

The species has at least two cultivars cloned by its own merits. Acer pseudoplatanus brillantissimum would be a wonderful replacement, but propagating exactly the same individual is a very satisfying rebellious act against the morons.

joe8756438• 2 years ago

I’m sure there’s a good reason, but couldn’t they root directly from the scion? Or is there something particular about the sycamore that resists that type of propagation?

My experience with sycamores on the mid atlantic US they are really tough trees. They sprout in a crushed stone parking area near my house, i can dig them up and replant them with high success rate.

joenot4434• 2 years ago

So two vandals in their 30s were arrested and remain on bail. In the UK, will we ever hear anything more about them? Do they remain anonymous even after they've been charged?

It's surprising to me this is being treated so lightly. A couple weeks ago when a Florida teenager was charged with a felony after doing burnouts on a crosswalk, UK papers seemed pretty happy to publish his face and name the very next morning [1]. I guess different rules when the crime occurs in a different country? Seems funny to me.

[1]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13080377/Florida-te...

Karellen• 2 years ago

I guess different rules when the crime occurs in a different country?

Yes, that's how laws work?

If the police in Florida release the names of people mere charged with a crime, but the police in the UK don't - in case, you know, they have the wrong person - then the reporting will be different?

joenot4434• 2 years ago

Yes, that's certainly how laws work - what a very astute answer, Karellan.

What I'm observing is that the spirit of the law, as it's being enforced here, is what's amusing. Is a suspect's identity deserving of state mandated protection? Only if they're British, I guess.

ajb2• 2 years ago

Names are normally released when someone is prosecuted, unless they are a minor. It doesn't always seem to happen at the charging stage, which is purely a police decision, but once it reaches a court, it is public.

joenot4434• 2 years ago

Fascinating. So the police hold some level of discretion on its release then?

NewJazz2• 2 years ago

Florida publishes the identity of people charged with a crime, as I understand. This is what has cause the phenomenon of "Florida man" headlines.

joenot4434• 2 years ago

Makes sense!

vr464• 2 years ago

No, guidelines specifically say only once charged, people may be named, in line with the principles of open justice.

Sources: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Reportin...

https://www.holdthefrontpage.co.uk/2023/news/huge-victory-fo...

https://www.college.police.uk/app/engagement-and-communicati...

Being a suspect and being charged are different things.

v3ss0n• 2 years ago

Why this News need to be top of HN?

ulysses1244• 2 years ago

It’s the intersection of science, culture, and history with an interesting criminal story. Seems perfect in some ways.

barrysteve• 2 years ago

In 1995 Pocohantas sings Colors of the Wind, including the line "how high can the Sycamore grow, if you chop it down, you'll never know".

Nevermind the tree was 500yrs old. There's a whole generation of 90s kids who valued growth and longevity.

The tree was a historical symbol for multiple generations of Brits too. It's a terrible loss to cut it down and we didn't do enough to protect it.

nly• 2 years ago

It was only about 150 years old, and it was planted by the landowner.

There are Oaks in my parents garden older than this, but that's not really the point

georgeburdell• 2 years ago

There are many hypothetical crimes that don’t happen because there’s some base level of societal trust. Think of the archetypal rural community where no one locks their doors at night. The UK, like many countries, is backsliding into a low trust society where previously unthinkable criminal acts are happening, requiring a re-thinking of its guarantees of security.

Sycamore Gap: New life springs from rescued tree

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