Nicholas Saunders and "Alternative London" changed British food

https://www.theguardian.com/food/2024/jan/23/nicholas-saunders-forgotten-genius-changed-british-food

by fuzztester • 2 years ago

107 35 2 years ago

theguardian.com

ZeroGravitas• 2 years ago

"Hippy, capitalist, guru, grocer: the forgotten genius who changed British food"

is perhaps a slightly more alluring headline for those unfamiliar with alternative London it the whole earth catalog.

fuzztester2• 2 years ago

yes I realised after posting it that the headline was not quite as descriptive as it should be.

dang2• 2 years ago

I've taken a crack at combining the two titles. Thanks!

(Submitted title was "Alternative London: A British Whole Earth Catalog")

twoWhlsGud• 2 years ago

Intriguing story of how one driven individual can have such impact. Reminded a bit of the story of Poilane - the Parisian baking family that has connections (e.g. founders having worked there) to most of the bread in the US I most enjoy eating:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/12/03/bread-winner

phyalow• 2 years ago

£7,000 for a warehouse in Covent Garden, those sure were the days.

dcminter• 2 years ago

It was definitely not an up & coming area in the early 70s, but inflation was part of it too - my parents bought their house with a half acre of garden in the green belt for £5000 at about the same time.

darkr• 2 years ago

Wow, even adjusted for inflation that's like £40k. You'd be struggling to find a warehouse anywhere near central for £4M these days.

hkt• 2 years ago

A prime example of how metrics of inflation are absolutely and utterly absurd, and generalises to domestic housing as well as commercial property.

deepnet• 2 years ago

Artisanal bootstrapping, pretty good sustainable ecoomic model described here.

In short: self-fund, do good, be cool.

This is the Neal behind Neal's Yard & Monmouth Coffee

A few Unicorns set-up by this man such as Neal's Yard Remedies bought by Doring-Kindersly: £220,000,000 per annum

Also :-D the origin of The famous Monty Python Cheese Shop Sketch was inspired by John Cleese trying to buy cheese from Neal's Yard Dairy.

And he wrote the UK's 'Whole Earth Catalogue', quite a guy.

thom• 2 years ago

This is the _Nicholas_ behind Neal’s Yard Dairy, there’s no Neal (it’s named for Neal’s Yard which is off Neal Street in London, named for Thomas Neale, a 17th century property developer).

tudorw• 2 years ago

Quite a guy indeed, and a great read, it's a little tangential though good enough excuse to mention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation a co-op since 1955 and with an equally inspiring story of what can success can look like.

DeathArrow• 2 years ago

So a wealthy anarchist and socialist who also was a dreamer and a poet while also being a capitalist who fought the system and an adventurer. Quite a lot of facets.

pmg102• 2 years ago

Unlike many in his scene, Saunders was not a leftist. He had no time for welfarism or state ownership, which he dismissed as inefficient, yet he also rejected rampant capitalism, which he saw as fundamentally unfair.

Not sure TFA supports your assertion that he was a socialist.

emmet• 2 years ago

Ah but he enjoyed coffee that wasn't freeze dried so that makes him a socialist according to the British media.

vidarh• 2 years ago

I agree with you that the article doesn't support that claim, but many socialists I know would also "have no time for welfarism or state ownership" - with some opposing the mere existence of a state - so it also doesn't really support the claim he wasn't "leftist" either.

The principles for Neals Yard regarding worker involvement, favouring encouraging and supporting workers expanding businesses by starting their own offshoots, and his practice of giving away businesses does smell lightly of something close-ish to socialism, though perhaps closer to the kind of Owens and Fourier, that Marx came to describe as "utopian" for their failure to provide any answers for society-wide structural change, than any more modern version.

As another comments pointed out, this article is peak Guardian - favouring small businesses and artisanal products over mass production, and countering extremes of capitalism in eccentric small scale ways, while at no point favouring anything to effect actual lasting change in any way that might threaten anyone with money.

TheOtherHobbes• 2 years ago

The Guardian boosting the public school-educated son of a neoliberal economist and supporter of eugenics, whose most lasting achievements seem to be artisanal coffee, cheese, and cosmetics empires that serve very comfortable middle class people, is the most Guardian thing ever.

wanderingbit• 2 years ago

The only part about the father in the entire article was a touching vignette about how Saunder’s dad would go above and beyond to answer his son’s questions.

Did something in the article or Saunders’ life point to him being neoliberal or into eugenics?

Your comment is strange; I assume you would not like it if people applied the sins of your father to you. If anything, the fact that Saunders turned out the way he did despite his father should be a cause for celebration.

Your comment made me sad that you thought a clearly positive-sum person’s life story could be summed up so pithely.

tomcam3• 2 years ago

No one talks about money more than English socialists

tomcam3• 2 years ago

Editions of this fascinating book run from USD $100 and up. Sorely tempted but wasteful for something I’ll read only once. Certainly “The Whole Earth Catalog“ opened my eyes as a wee lad to things I never knew existed and certainly couldn’t afford.

joloooo• 2 years ago

If you're interested in more whole earth catalog: https://wholeearth.info/

If you're interested in rare books libgen (is) the place to look.

tomcam3• 2 years ago

I did not know about libgen! Great resource, thanks

Aromasin• 2 years ago

I always find it incredible what just a few short years of rationing during WW2 did to British cuisine for decades after. It was as extravagant and flavourful for the middle and upper classes of the 19th century and prior as any other culture. Just looking at a few menus from the period, they were decadent to the extreme and could hold a candle to the cuisines world over.

The UK started rationing in 1939 and finished in 1954. In that time, the tastes of the nations changed to the extent that we still feel that impact today, with the fondness for beans on toast and other beige foods. Think about how many times we've all heard the running joke that Brits have poor taste and don't season their food. It's sad really.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationing_in_the_United_Kingdo...

fakedang• 2 years ago

Can you give some examples of 19th century British cuisine? I imagine they would have used quite a bit of spices and stuff from all over the world.

jfengel• 2 years ago

As a semi-random-ish example, consider the first-class menu from the Titanic:

https://www.housebeautiful.com/lifestyle/news/a6039/titanic-...

Egg a la Argenteuil, "Chicken Maryland", mutton, galantine... there's a lot of items, and that's just what's available at lunch.

It's actually not heavily spiced. That was a medieval fashion which kinda drifted out once the spices became more available. That's when spices got moved mostly to desserts.

The 19th century cuisine is much more like what we think of as French cuisine today. But in fact, the French got it from the English, and the English re-imported it to give things a "gourmet" air.

fuzztester2• 2 years ago

Although they are somewhat older than the 19th century, check out novels by Georgette Heyer, if interested. The genre is Regency romance, sort of romantic (& some adventure) type of novels of 18th century England, and theyinclude a good amount of talk about the cuisine of that period.

Pete-Codes• 2 years ago

Sounds an interesting guy but it's one of these torturously long articles that won't just get to the point

wetmore• 2 years ago

It's an exploration of a man's life and impact on the world. The length was fitting. Personally I didn't find it tortuous at all.

Nicholas Saunders and "Alternative London" changed British food

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