Cost of employer-sponsored health insurance is flattening worker wages

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2024-01-employer-sponsored-health-flattening-worker.html

by clumsysmurf • 3 years ago

40 57 3 years ago

paulpauper• 3 years ago

obesity is probably to blame here. So many chronic health problems are probably downstream from obesity.

ttt3ts• 3 years ago

The rising costs of healthcare should not be simplified to this extreme. Other huge factors: we are getting older on average, fewer doctors, bureaucracy, transparency, etc. Further, these are heavily entertwined. Been working on costs of healthcare for a while and the laymens simplified explanation of the problem makes it tough at times.

nxm• 3 years ago

+ malpractice insurance

dchung333• 3 years ago

Uhh...

Researchers also found that Black and Hispanic families lost a higher percentage of their wages than white families. By 2019, health care premiums as percentage of compensation were 18.5% for Asian families, 19.2% for Black families, and 19.8% for Hispanic families, compared to 13.8% for white families.

Lower-wage workers are also hit hard by this disparity. In 2019, health care premiums as percentage of compensation represented 28.5% of compensation for families in the 20th percentile of earnings, compared with only 3.9% for families in the 95th percentile.

Maybe not the one you want to skip the article for. On another note Asian Americans are skinnier than White Americans even adjusted for on BMI so obesity is ruled out.

SuperNinKenDo• 3 years ago

What those other races do have over whites is probably their propensity for Type 2 diabetes though.

Blacks and Asians definitely, possibly for different reasons. Not completely certain about hispanics tbf.

iancmceachern• 3 years ago

Obesity is the symptom. The disease is a bigger, more interconnected subject.

PaulHoule3• 3 years ago

It could well be the effect of PFAS, glyphosate, bisphenol A or some other industrial chemical that exploded in prevalence in the last quarter of the 20th Century.

dublin2• 3 years ago

Obesity may be a factor, but it's stupid to think that it has anything like the impact that boneheaded government policy has on healthcare costs. Obamacare was, and is, a disaster, driving up costs while producing worse outcomes. (I've worked as a CEO in a healthcare tech startup since then, so I've got better insight than the average bear.)

The vast majority of people actually need those "junk plans" Obama eliminated: Catastrophic coverage plans with fairly high deductibles (which HSAs would handle after a few years...)

Sohcahtoa823• 3 years ago

Obamacare was, and is, a disaster, driving up costs while producing worse outcomes.

I'm not sure I'd call it a disaster, but I will agree that ACA did absolutely nothing to address the core issue:

Health care is just too expensive.

I crashed my mountain bike in the summer of 2022, broke my arm and scraped up my knee real bad, though managed to put my bike back on the rack on my car and drive to the ER one-handed. They did an X-Ray, confirmed the breakage, gave me an arm sling and a prescription for painkillers, and cleaned up my knee. Total visit was 20 minutes. Without insurance, it would have cost me nearly $3,000.

$3,000 for 20 minutes of work between an X-Ray tech, 1 doc, 1 nurse, and 1 person at the front desk.

I understand that there's overhead, but I still think that cost was 5x what it should have been.

jmye3• 3 years ago

The ACA was a fantastic tool, enabling millions more people to access insurance that will actually pay things. If this is your analysis, my assumption is that you work in a healthcare adjacent world like BNPL and don’t actually have even the vaguest understanding of what the ACA is, does, or includes.

We can start with the simple fact that catastrophic plans still exist and that they actually cover things, now. That you think they both don’t exist and we’re somehow better before defies belief.

gumballindie2• 3 years ago

In the UK you get to pay both public and private healthcare. Both of low quality. Private health care relies on “virtual appointments” and usually leads to mis diagnostics. It will get worse with ai.

lurking152• 3 years ago

It will get worse with ai.

I've had to self-diagnose and then just plainly guide several of my doctors, even specialists, on diagnostics (for evidence) and subsequent treatment.

I've had some really lame infections and things going on, and most of my GPs over the years would just pin it down to anxiety or blindly prescribe antibiotics (made things much worse).

I've lost all faith in the average doctor's expertise, so I expect AI must be better but at the same time realize the whole system gets inexplicably worse as a human being on the other end, despite advances in technology.

gumballindie2• 3 years ago

Ok, so you've received low quality health care and you think a hallucinating bot is the solution? What if we, you know, start hiring competent people? Or change the system to allow them to become competent?

LeafItAlone10• 3 years ago

I've had to self-diagnose and then just plainly guide several of my doctors, even specialists, on diagnostics (for evidence) and subsequent treatment.

Being involved in your own treatment is very important. In my opinion, it’s folly to expect your doctor to know everything. I can read descriptions of similar diseases and problems and be able to compare my symptoms. You generally know your body better than anyone.

eszed• 3 years ago

It used to be better. When I first lived in the UK, going on thirty years ago, it was brilliant. Even fifteen years ago both NHS and private were head and shoulders (and more) better than the US (I have intimate experience with both sadly).

The deliberate destruction, in the name of profit, of the NHS across the last decade makes me more angry than just about anything anywhere.

PaulHoule3• 3 years ago

... but it's not like they're just stealing the money from you, you are getting health insurance, which has a lot of value. There's another story going around that if you add benefits like health insurance not to mention programs like food stamps the gap between rich and poor hasn't increased as much as you'd think otherwise.

dublin2• 3 years ago

No, it has little to no value at all until something really catastrophic happens to you. Paying thousands of dollars a year for a "free" annual checkup is NOT delivering "a lot of value". It's been much more of just a money pit.

Over my career, I am upside-down on my healthcare costs to the tune of six figures - and that's after kidney stone surgery some years back...) I think I'll pass on succumbing to cancer to try to recover a bit more, though...

mikeyouse2• 3 years ago

It's tax time now so I get a wonderful breakdown of how much my company paid for my and my family's insurance (over $25k) and I also get to put together how much we spent out of pocket on health services (over $5k for a bog-standard pregnancy). If this is supposed to be some sort of bargain or good deal, I'm missing it. In the decade prior to this, my total premiums must have been over $200k for literally no usage.

throwway120385• 3 years ago

I agree with you in principle, provided you have the time and resources to make the insurance company actually pay out what they're supposed to. It's been more my experience that the insurance company pays most charges and then you have to dispute one or two denials to the tune of a few hundred per ED visit. Or they have accounting errors or other problems that result in you being billed past your out of pocket max or your coinsurance. And so on.

It's not like it's a free market because you can't just kick them to the curb a month later like you can with car or homeowner's insurance.

klyrs• 3 years ago

you are getting health insurance, which has a lot of value.

It has a high cost, I'll grant. But value isn't the same as cost, especially in a captive market.

LeafItAlone10• 3 years ago

Health insurance also has high value for many people - the cost you’d otherwise pay. For my family, that’s in the many many of thousands.

abeppu4• 3 years ago

But you have to be really careful to not confuse the 'value' of healthcare with the cost of healthcare.

- If my health insurance lists a benefit value of $1500/mo for PrEP, and has a sticker price of $500/mo in other countries (and out-of-pocket might be $15-$60), is the "value" of the care I receive 3x greater than that received by a similar person in Belgium? Is it 25x the value of the same care received by someone in Ireland?

- If the healthcare I receive includes GP visits needed to get a referral to a specialist to satisfy my insurance co, or extra tests to convince them that a procedure is necessary, is that "value" that I received?

- If 20-30% of healthcare costs are billing and administration, is that "value"?

Our employers aren't just stealing this money from us, but for-profit healthcare providers and health insurance companies and pharmacy benefit manager companies creating inefficiency to their benefit and to the harm of patients.

https://www.thebody.com/article/what-does-prep-cost-outside-...

LeafItAlone10• 3 years ago

But you have to be really careful to not confuse the 'value' of healthcare with the cost of healthcare.

Do you? Regardless of the price in other countries or what processes are currently “required”, there’s the price you have to pay. If you are going to buy a car, you either “value” it at or above the price you pay, or you don’t buy it. Why is healthcare different?

jmye3• 3 years ago

If the healthcare I receive includes GP visits needed to get a referral to a specialist to satisfy my insurance co, or extra tests to convince them that a procedure is necessary, is that "value" that I received?

Do you think all of those tests are irrelevant? Who sent you to the specialist, if not your primary care provider?

What do you think health care value actually is? It appears you don’t think it includes actual care or diagnosis.

LeafItAlone10• 3 years ago

There's another story going around that if you add benefits like health insurance not to mention programs like food stamps the gap between rich and poor hasn't increased as much as you'd think otherwise.

Where’s that story?

Paul-Craft2• 3 years ago

It's a fairy tale. There's no way $200/month in food stamp benefits (conditioned, BTW, on not having more than $2000 cash in a bank account) does jack squat to the gap between someone recieving SNAP benefits and someone who's actually well off. Even if you add in Medicaid benefits that some SNAP recipients are automatically eligible, it doesn't even come close.

It doesn't explain how Gen X won't be able to retire, or how 80% of Americans can't afford new cars, or how the average person can't afford a home in 99% of America. And, it sure as hell doesn't explain what's going on at the grocery store, or in the used car market, or in the rental market. (All of which has been previously / recently discussed on here, BTW.)

And, it for damn sure doesn't pay my bills. That story and $3 doesn't even get you a latte at a chain coffee shop anymore.

No, it's just some made up BS to either gaslight us into thinking everything is fine, or make wealthy people feel okay about all the exploitation it takes to turn the crank that makes them a dollar.

refurb• 3 years ago

Clearly since people will often turn down a higher paying job with worse health insurance than a lower paying job with better.

Workers look at the total compensation package, not just wages alone.

Casteil• 3 years ago

you are getting health insurance, which has a lot of value.

So much 'value' that millions of Americans still end up in medical debt, with many having to resort to medical bankruptcy even as 'insured' individuals.

Too many exclusions, too many ways to deny coverage. The private health care system of the US is broken.

kmos17• 3 years ago

Running a small company it is glaring how much worse things have gotten over the last 20 years not between rich and poor but between rich and the middle class, especially in the US. Health insurance costs have exploded, cost of living too, wages have definitely not kept pace. Health insurance is one I find especially infuriating, the increase in premiums every year is insane, and always more than inflation.

jl2718• 3 years ago

1. No negotiated rates. 2. No employer mandate. 3. No special tax treatment. 4. No individual mandate.

Crazy idea: Convert Medicare, Medicaid, and SSDI to universal medical loan insurance.

Cost of employer-sponsored health insurance is flattening worker wages

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