In Defense of Teasing

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/07/magazine/07teasing-t.html?ref=magazine&pagewanted=all

by robg • 18 years ago

39 23 18 years ago

nytimes.com

omarchowdhury• 18 years ago

Well, judging by the lack of replies this seems like a sensitive issue with the nerds (geeks?).

Chocobean4• 18 years ago

totally. I read the title of the post and I winced. Not even because I was especially teased.

the gist of the article: "Where teasing provides an arena to safely explore conflict, it can join people in a common cause. Especially when they’re allowed to tease back."

I would change that to say that teasing is an arena to safely explore conflict and bring about positive benefits ONLY when the teasing is two-directional. This is the difference between brothers punching each other and a bully punching you in the gut -- if you're not allowed or unable to punch back or throw back a punchline, it's bullying.

Unlike physical hurt, teasing can be used as a tool to tie a group closer together by highlighting its contrast with another group, or more hurtfully, specific things about a single individual. Greasers and preppies, nerds and jocks, boys and girls, Inners and Outers...etc. The punchlines are often something the group has in common, but which the excluded individual(s) lack. In other words, hurtful teasing aims to alienate; helpful teasing aims to bind together. Unfortunately, sometimes the two can happen simultaneously.

Again, the difference here is the ability to counter. The article brings in all these cases where people are on retaliate-able positions, even when inequality exists. The situation with the frat boys would've resembled the Stanford Prison Experiment if the Inners were allowed to tease the Outers but not vice versa.

derefr• 18 years ago

When I read the title, I thought it was going to be an ironic post by the NYT about post-barriers ("teasers.")

tome• 18 years ago

Confusion is the result of giving two different things (being playful and being hurtful) the same name (teasing).

ConradHex• 18 years ago

There's significant gray area there, and plenty of room for confusion.

yummyfajitas2• 18 years ago

The confusion comes from the fact that "playful" and "hurtful" are, to a great extent, properties of the teasee rather than the teaser.

Fabienne [Pulp Fiction French Girl]: A pot. A pot belly. Pot bellies are sexy.

Butch [Bruce Willis]: Well you should be happy, 'cause you do [have a pot belly].

The net result of that conversation is NSFW in a positive way (here is the script http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/7606/pulpscri.htm).

I've had a similar conversations, and it doesn't always go so well. In retrospect, I believe the reason is that Fabienne considered herself beautiful and knew Butch was merely trying to get a reaction from her. Previous ladyfajitas didn't all feel the same way about themselves.

scott_s4• 18 years ago

It's worth remembering that Fabienne reacted the way she did because that's what Quentin Tarrintino wanted her to do.

naish• 18 years ago

Interesting article. I particularly liked this comment towards the end:

We must remember, though, that teasing, like so many things, gets better with age. Starting at around 11 or 12, children become much more sophisticated in their ability to hold contradictory propositions about the world — they move from Manichaean either-or, black-or-white reasoning to a more ironic, complex understanding. As a result, as any chagrined parent will tell you, they add irony and sarcasm to their social repertory. And it is at this age that you begin to see a precipitous drop in the reported incidences of bullying. As children learn the subtleties of teasing, their teasing is less often experienced as damaging.

harpastum• 18 years ago

What exactly is the author arguing there? After becoming fluent in irony and sarcasm, you won't 'experience' that asshole beating you up at recess as 'damaging'?

I find it much more likely that the social punishment for being a bully greatly increases as the social structure builds, and it hits critical mass by the time children are 11-12 years old. The bullies then must become more subtle about their actions.

I agree that teasing definitely has its benefits, but this author's portrait of teasing as an innocent victim just has me confused.

Teasing is an extremely subjective social concept, and the same actions can be either teasing or bullying depending on the situation. If one of my friends comes up behind me and tackles me playfully (I'm a rugby player, so this isn't an uncommon occurrence), that's just an everyday part of life--but if a stranger took me to the ground while I was walking down the street, I wouldn't be so forgiving.

It's up to the teasee when teasing becomes bullying, and I think it's a great idea for schools to have policies against bullies.

If you enjoy it, it's not stalking, but if it is, you need to be able to get a restraining order.

Chocobean4• 18 years ago

It was an interesting article indeed, but I disagree with him that it "gets better with aging". Think about work-place verbal abuses disguised as jest, or parental "funny" put-downs spoken to adult children, or when an adult jokes about his/her spouses' performance in intimate situations or lack of financial prowess, or that he/she's "still chasing that making it big dream". It could still hurt, even when the subject of teasing realizes that it is meant to be funny.

The only thing that changes with age is our ability to laugh at ourselves along with them, or to laugh back, or the ability to distance ourselves from the abuser. The author has taken the acquiring of fight/flight defense mechanisms which comes with age for granted.

My other comment on this thread: the luxury of being able to fight is what distinguishes good teasing from bad teasing. Those of us who have ever been teased will know what I mean.

steveplace2• 18 years ago

I feel like throwing a red Voit dodgeball at the author's face, to see if he falls out of his ivory tower.

jaycee• 18 years ago

Two things:

1) I don't really know that this feels like an ivory tower tone. I mean, it was grounded in legit research or anecdotal evidence, not a lot of "this is how it ought to be" talk.

2) I'm pretty sure instances where someone is singled out to have dodgeballs thrown at one's face would be in the 'bullying' category, not 'teasing' which the author admits can be a difficult distinction.

Just saying.

steveplace2• 18 years ago

Looks like you're next.

Unless I get some lunch money.

bemmu• 18 years ago

The article was too painful to read through, but the example given at the start seems like normal play, not teasing as I understand it.

scott_s4• 18 years ago

Teasing is a part of the normal play. The author tries to distinguish between playful teasing and abusive teasing.

Chocobean4• 18 years ago

actually no, the author cited example after example of helpful, positive, team-building, playful teasing, but never actually said what separates that from abusive teasing. The closest he gets to doing so is to imply with "age" it doesn't hurt anymore because we are able to perceive the playfulness and not the hurt. Which we all know is not true.

Jem• 18 years ago

I was bullied as a kid and I still think this is a great article.

I want to be able to tease my friends affectionately without being labelled a bully, or poke fun at my partner without having people lecturing me on 'respect'.

In fact, I totally agree with what was said in the article about couples who tease - I DO have a happier relationship with my partner because we know each other well enough to feel comfortable taking the piss, and can laugh at each other and ourselves. (Most people don't seem to understand the dynamic of our relationship, but we've been together for 7 years so must be doing something right :) )

timcederman• 18 years ago

I miss the culture of acceptable teasing in Australia.

In Defense of Teasing

Related Stories