Ask HN: Programmers who seriously damage their hands?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3783926

by prezjordan • 14 years ago

9 18 14 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I'm young, but I have to say one of my biggest fears is somehow losing the function of my hands. How could a programmer cope with this? Are there any stories about something like this?

mirsadm• 14 years ago

My friend managed his hands/arms pretty badly by rock climbing. He couldn't use a mouse/keyboard for more than 5 minutes for a long time. Basically the conclusion was don't damage your hands :). It is difficult to cope and the alternative input methods aren't very good.

mcartyem3• 14 years ago

I found rock climbing to be strengthening my joints, and a net positive.

cleverjake• 14 years ago

http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/9723/are-phys...

mcartyem3• 14 years ago

When I started showing RSI symptoms, I switched to Dvorak, and also got an ergonomic keyboard. The difference in comfort was dramatic for me.

I would say that a softer keyboard was what made the biggest difference in comfort. Particularly, reducing the effort it takes to press a key down.

The keyboard I liked the best was a http://typematrix.com/ The key feature that made it more comfortable for me was the vertical alignment of keys, as opposed to a diagonal alignment. (Edit: the key feature compared to other keyboards that do leave space in between the hands.)

As I recently found out, there's more to curing RSI pain: http://aaroniba.net/articles/tmp/how-i-cured-my-rsi-pain.htm...

Yxven• 14 years ago

I programmed the first year of my start-up using only dragon naturally speaking 9 and vim (dns 10 didn't play nice with vim). I could actually program at a comparable speed to what I can do by typing. Only activities that required the mouse (like html/css nonsense) took 100x longer.

I wasn't doing this by choice, but losing your hands doesn't have to be the end of a programming career.

president• 14 years ago

I'm in my early 20s and had a bad case of tendinitis 2 years ago which left my hands, wrists, and forearms in a horrible state of pain (tingling, soreness, numbness, loss of strength, inflamation).

What worked for me was a combination of:

- Always maintaining good posture when typing (according to ergonomic guidelines of a computer workspace). Prior to this I had programmed laying down and in all sorts of odd positions on a sofa.

- Reading the "How I Cured my RSI Pain" link. I didn't read Sarno's book but what I took away from reviews was that pain is largely psychological. When I stopped constantly thinking of pain, it went away! I know...sounds magical, but it worked! This made a BIG difference.

- Exercising daily and doing wrist exercises.

What could have possibly worked but I can't verify is:

- Switching to Dvorak. Made me type faster and more naturally but I have no idea if it helped me at all.

What I definitely know didn't help:

- Massages. They temporarily helped to relieve pain in my arms but did nothing to stop pain in the long term.

It took a good half year after I made these changes for the pain to start receding. I still have some minor bouts of pain at random times but it seems to come up only when my posture is off and I have been programming for hours and hours without break. Hope this helps!

SamReidHughes• 14 years ago

> - Switching to Dvorak.

It might not have been Dvorak in particular that helped, but switching to a different keyboard layout that helped, by causing you to reset whatever bad habits you had. I got wrist problems after several years of Dvorak use.

kevinclark• 14 years ago

I started having serious RSI symptoms at 19. I was on the computer probably 16 hours a day between my CS program, work, and rec time. My elbows became swollen and painful to the point I couldn't sleep. I took ibuprofen for a while to help, but eventually the amount it took to alleviate pain caused a mild overdose (2800mg in 24 hours is bad juju). Every doctor I went to see told me the same thing - you're going to have to get away from the keyboard. I was fairly certain I'd have to switch careers entirely.

The thing that made the difference for me was paying attention to how I treated my body. You can spend a lot of money to prevent RSI symptoms, but the most important things for me was an egg timer. I started taking 5 minute breaks every 45 minutes to stretch my hands and arms. Now I use AntiRSI (http://tech.inhelsinki.nl/antirsi/) to do the same thing.

The most significant change to equipment was my chair and desk. I invested in a good chair that I could adjust easily - elbow height (and rotation) and seat height in particular. Being at the correct height and angle makes all the difference.

I bought a zero tension mouse (http://bit.ly/HAZYov), which seemed to help with my mousing hand, and had a MS Natural Keyboard at the time. I've since moved on to a kinesis that I like a lot.

Exercise also seems to help - I'm an active rock climber at this point, and it's helped my posture and arm strength.

To the general 'what if you lose function of your hands', I think there's hope. The most important things we do as programmers isn't typing. It's solving problems. If you can still do that and you can communicate those ideas effectively to others, you'll have a lot to offer.

wglb• 14 years ago

I have had serious hand pain in the past, and actually needed my wife to button the collars of shirts.

I did two things to get rid of the pain. First, I got an Advantage Kenesis keyboard, and a trackball mouse. I only use the mouse with my left hand (I am right-handed) and never touch a regular mouse. After several weeks, the hand pain completely subsided.

If you have even a minor amount of hand, wrist, forearm, or even shoulder pain, figure out what is causing it, whether it is keyboard, posture, table height and address it promptly.

mcartyem3• 14 years ago

Moving the mouse to the left (I am right-handed) alleviated about half the pain I had in my right shoulder and hand.

CoolGuySteve• 14 years ago

Anyone out there with tips for arthritis?

My mother has it in her fingers and now that I'm approaching 30 I can feel it starting to develop, especially after a long day or when the office gets cold.

owyn• 14 years ago

It's one of my big fears too. I've had friends who had to go through physical therapy due to RSI issues from programming.

Some simple precautions can help. First, take breaks. :) Stand up, stretch, don't work "tense". When I get in the zone I will just hunch over for hours. That's bad. Other than that, I found that I just have to use an external keyboard and mouse and then I'm basically fine. Typing for a long period of time on a laptop keyboard causes me problems.

The other thing that helps is sitting at a proper desk. If I try to work from the couch, I will feel it the next day (but mostly back issues). Move to a proper desk for doing real work...

mattm• 14 years ago

Buy disability insurance. My insurance is professional so if I can't program anymore, it covers me.

colinhugh• 14 years ago

Hello, I'm 23, I developed RSI in both my hands 6 months ago.

What helped me was: getting wrist supports, stretching my hand and arms for 2 mins every 30, learning all of the keyboard shortcuts and avoiding the mouse as much as possible, sitting up straight, raising the monitors to head height, typing with the keyboard on my lap.

It took 2 months off work, then a month of half days to be able to return to working as much as I used to. I am still avoiding using the computer out of work, which is rubbish.

Initially I stopped playing guitar/bass because I thought that it would make things worse, but the physio told me that if it didn't make things worse, it probably helped, and I think it has/does.

When things start getting better, don't just plough back into working full time, I did that and it got worse again and I had to have another load of half days.

krsgoss2• 14 years ago

What did you use for wrist supports? If you can share any specific products it would be greatly appreciated.

krsgoss2• 14 years ago

Anyone have recommendations/guidelines on checking your posture and setup? I had a friend who worked at Apple and said they had people who could come by and review your desk setup for proper posture, etc. I wish there was an equivalent for people working out of their home office.

pasbesoin• 14 years ago

Adding to what others have said: Adjust your desk to the proper height.

Beware of a position that has the desk edge -- or, these days, front edge of the laptop -- pressing into your wrists.

Do other things that strengthen your hands, wrists, arms, shoulders (and body), and that increase flexibility.

I've heard descriptions that ascribe significant portions of RSI to what's going on not just at the hands and wrists, but all the way up the arms and into the shoulders. Summarized: Bad stuff further up (tension, posture, etc.) leads to bad stuff further down.

I also thing bad stuff can start further down, e.g. having an edge pressing into your wrists or your wrists formed into a wearing position.

grn• 14 years ago

I've been having pain in my hands and forearms for 18 months. The initial pain was so strong that I had to stop working for 2 weeks. I did the following:

- replaced keyboards at home and work with Microsoft Natural 4000

- installed browser plug-ins that provide Vim-like navigation (Vimium for Chrome and Vimperator for Firefox)

- switched back to Vim (I had been experimenting with Emacs for a few months)

- moved the mouse to the left (now I moved it back to the right in order to relieve my left hand)

- installed Workrave to force myself to take regular breaks (I temporarily stopped using it because I'm experimenting with Pomodoro and it includes a five minute break every 25 minutes)

- enabled sticky keys and latchlock

That allowed me to work over the last 18 months. I'm trying not to use a computer at home. I'm planning to take holidays and give my hands a longer rest ... and some Voltaren! ;-)

Ask HN: Programmers who seriously damage their hands?

Related Stories