Liberalism against capitalism, equality/freedom are incompatible with capitalism

https://aeon.co/essays/what-can-we-learn-from-john-rawlss-critique-of-capitalism

3 14 3 years ago

Findeton4• 3 years ago

This obviously means John Rawls is wrong, equality is not something to strive for and his definition of freedom is just plain wrong.

FrustratedMonky6• 3 years ago

So. Democracy, Declaration of Independence, Constitution. These are all wrong? We should NOT strive for equality?

What do you think we are striving for if "equality is wrong"??

Findeton4• 3 years ago

We're all different and our experiences will always be different.

We need to strive for justice. And that means judging the actions of individuals, not the outcomes (so say goodbye to "social" justice). If the actions are fair, then whatever the outcome, the outcome will be fair.

the_lego3• 3 years ago

"Equal rights" is not the same as the broader and less-defined "equality". If this conversation is to go anywhere, it behooves us all to be very specific in which meaning of "equality" we are using.

FrustratedMonky6• 3 years ago

Maybe a quote with the main idea.

This is about 'Liberalism" in the old school sense, Democratic Ideals. Democracy is a threat to capitalisms. Capitalism works to subvert democracy.

"Capitalism is also inconsistent with the basic liberal value of political liberty. Political scientists have been arguing for some time that advanced democracies like the United States and Western Europe are probably better characterised as oligarchies, since their policies bear almost no relation to the interests of the poor when these deviate from those of the wealthy. ""
"Central to Rawls’s understanding of stability was Marx’s observation in ‘On the Jewish Question’ (1844) that ‘while ideally politics takes precedence over money’, under capitalism, ‘in fact politics has become the servant of money’. It’s not enough to recognise some domain as ‘political’ and to try to summon the ‘political will’ to change it. Political power – the legislative and policymaking power of the state – cannot simply achieve anything it desires. It is constrained by, among other things, the power of capital. It is vital to understand how the dynamics of capital ownership may thwart proposed political interventions. Many of these are familiar: the regulatory race to the bottom fuelled by the threat of capital flight; ‘market discipline’; creditors imposing austerity and structural adjustment on not-so-sovereign nations."

Findeton4• 3 years ago

I for one celebrate that "capitalism" takes precedence over politics. Because he actually means free markets, people making their own decisions instead of politicians and bureaucrats making decisions in the name of everyone else.

FrustratedMonky6• 3 years ago

This sounds like some basic Libertarian nonsense.

Markets do not exist as free-formed objects of nature, like the sun and planets.

Like there is some "Free Market Force" in the universe that somehow government is trying to hold back.

Markets are created by laws/regulations, by the government(people agreeing to certain rules), like contract law, property rights, courts, etc... to form a system for exchange. And the exchange, is through money, which is also created from laws/regulations, to set the standard for the exchange.

A market doesn't exist outside of government. Like you would stumble across it in nature while out for a walk.

This concept that somehow there is a "free market" that can exist outside of regulation and laws is a 'utopian' concept.

And, maybe the point, the Government, laws, regulations, can be corrupted through the power of the corporations it spawns. We need stronger government, to hold corporations in check, in order to have a more efficient market.

Liberalism against capitalism, equality/freedom are incompatible with capitalism

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