Double neural bypass restores movement, sense of touch after paralysis

https://feinstein.northwell.edu/news/the-latest/bioelectronic-medicine-researchers-restore-feeling-lasting-movement-in-man-living-with-quadriplegia

by kvee • 3 years ago

181 28 3 years ago

feinstein.northwell.edu

duccinator• 3 years ago

This is truly amazing. We are living in the future.

I wonder though, if the brain already has specific regions for control of specific parts of our body, will it be impossible to add new limbs in the future? An extra arm would be helpful.

AtlasBarfed3• 3 years ago

I'm kind of surprised that in 2023, some signal replicator bridge from one side of the spinal cord to the other side isn't a lot more straightforward. I mean we're doing neural implants and the like already.

But for the use case you say, I think it's more likely a robotic arm with AI / voice instruction would do that. Or a neural helmet.

LightHugger• 3 years ago

I think people drastically overestimate modern medical technology. We are not advanced by any means. We are still just barely learning small pieces...

epups2• 3 years ago

I'm kind of surprised that in 2023, some signal replicator bridge from one side of the spinal cord to the other side isn't a lot more straightforward.

The issue is that the spinal cord is a bundle of cables essentially, a lot of axons from individual neurons. If you sever it, finding the right connection is impossible, so you have to use more blunt tools like electrical stimulation of the whole bundle.

We are getting better and better at labeling individual cells, even at a molecular level. When we understand how to do that, we might be able to do as you propose. I think we will see some forms of paralysis reverted in the coming decades with technologies such as those.

Traubenfuchs3• 3 years ago

Brain plasticity to the rescue. There are examples of people being able to integrate completely new senses (vibrating compass belt) and controlling prosthesis with completely unrelated nerves.

But if you want to graft additional limbs to people, I highly recommend starting with baby aged humans already, their brain plasticity is unmatched. Imagine how much more fulfilment an amazon fulfilment center worker could bring with four arms! I should get Bezos on the phone.

https://www.carlosterminel.com/wearable-compass

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4196408/World-s-p...

imtringued• 3 years ago

Equisapiens to the rescue!

sneak• 3 years ago

Something similar to this was the core of the Neal Stephenson/George Jewsbury novel Interface (highly recommended read); it's absolutely wild that it's already a real thing.

DoingIsLearning• 3 years ago

Is there an actual paper?

I am struggling to find concrete info, I only see media packages for press releases?

light_hue_12• 3 years ago

The main problem they don't talk much about, and why this isn't ready to go mainstream, is that those brain implants will decay over time.

The brain will build up scar tissue around the electrodes and render them useless. These are basically little needles put into a jell-o which then wiggles around all the time. This constantly irritates and damages the tissue. Your immune system hates this.

Even within months there's a significant decay. But, within 5-10 years most of the array becomes pretty useless. Of course, you can't replace it easily. And the damage to that area, while local, isn't reversible.

There's a lot of research on trying to make a brain implant that can last longer so that all of these treatments become viable. But we still have basically nothing.

Traubenfuchs3• 3 years ago

Couldn‘t one simple cut the decayed ends and graft new electrodes to fresher nerves behind?

Yes, yes, slowly cutting away at the non reneweable nerves, widening the gap to keep the connection working, becoming more cyborg as the time passes.

Sounds crazy, but for the reward it brings, is there a price too high?

lloydatkinson• 3 years ago

Figuring out the required stem cell treatment to properly regenerate damaged nerves or creating some kind of non-degrading synthetic nerve that can be placed in the spine (or wherever) seems like a much better long term goal.

FreshStart• 3 years ago

Makes you wish for a room temperature super conductor magnet that could deduce nerves from magnetic fields sensored and induce electric pulses via induction and wave intersection.

gonehome• 3 years ago

DBS hardware seems to work - does it also have these issues or are you excluding it for some reason?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_brain_stimulation

light_hue_12• 3 years ago

Deep brain stimulation is a whole other ballgame.

Most DBS setups right now don't do any sensing. They just send a regular pulse that is manually adjusted. It doesn't really matter that much that there is a small amount of scar tissue around the electrode, the scar tissue is also a conductor. And, that area of the brain is likely pretty damaged anyway.

Sensing DBS with closed-loop feedback is very new. But there you're looking to sense at a totally different resolution. With something like a Utah array, they're looking to record extremely accurately from a very small number of neurons, like individual neurons. With DBS sensing they're looking to get the average response from somewhere between 1k-100k neurons. The scar tissue in the first case can overwhelm your signal, in the second case, it's a small fraction of the area you're recording from.

goldenkey• 3 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurotrophic_electrode

MagicMoonlight• 3 years ago

I mean 10 years with your life back is pretty significant. People spend 100k to get an extra year from cancer.

Double neural bypass restores movement, sense of touch after paralysis

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