Men are dropping out of the labor force because upset about their social status

https://fortune.com/2022/12/07/men-dropping-out-work-force-status-study/

by paulpauper • 3 years ago

11 15 3 years ago

jfengel2• 3 years ago

(2022)

Abstract of the actual paper: (https://www.bostonfed.org/publications/research-department-w...)

Data indicate that more frequent labor force exit among men without a four-year college degree has been driving the decline in the US prime-age (25 to 54) men’s labor force participation rate over the last 40 years. At the same time, non-college men’s earnings measured as a share of the average earnings of all prime-age workers have fallen by more than 30 percent since 1980. In light of these parallel trends, this paper investigates whether prime-age noncollege men are more inclined to leave the labor force when their expected earnings fall relative to the earnings of other workers in their labor market. The empirical model takes into account that a job not only provides economic security but also affirms a worker’s social status, which is tied to their position relative to their age-range peers. The sample consists of state-occupation-level panel data on labor force exit rates, occupation earnings, and job loss risk matched with information on the state-level earnings distribution and a set of state socioeconomic controls over the period 1980 through 2019.

alephnerd• 3 years ago

By exit do they mean NEET-ification (Not in Education, Employment or Training) or is this solely about job market participation?

Apocryphally, there seems to be greater support for non-traditional students now so a subset might be retraining.

jfengel2• 3 years ago

They're only measuring labor force participation rate.

Also note that the time range is 1980 to 2019, so any more recent trends won't figure into it.

paulpauper• 3 years ago

I think it's also related to this https://time.com/6287012/why-finding-job-is-difficult/

There are so many hurdles, especially for 'average' people without exceptional, sought skills or talents or infinite patience, that they just say 'fuck it' and either move in with parents or other family, move in with friends, go on disability, or drop out of society in other ways.

Companies keep saying there is a labor shortage, or that they need work, or that people do not want to work, yet at the same time make it so hard to actually get hired. so much pre-employment screening.

2-718-281-828• 3 years ago

https://web.archive.org/web/20230624165908/https://fortune.c...

hotpotamus2• 3 years ago

If you've ever played Mario Kart, the first thing you might notice is how much fun it is - it's pretty much the only game that gets me excited to play with friends in a long time. Another aspect that you'll figure out is that it has mechanisms to assist you when you fall behind (you tend to get much better item drops) and aspects to prevent anyone from getting too far ahead (the dreaded "Blue Shell" that rockets to the player in the lead and nearly unavoidably targets them to slow them enough to usually lose a few slots). It certainly makes for an engaging game when it has mechanisms to keep the race competitive.

al2o3cr• 3 years ago

skill issue

bitshiftfaced• 3 years ago

Non-college-educated men have seen their pay shrink by more than 30% since 1980 compared to the average earnings of all other prime-age workers. Their weekly earnings have declined 17%, while those of college-educated men rose by 20%, adjusting for inflation. That earnings loss has caused a decline in their social status, prompting them to walk away from work entirely, Pinghui Wu, the author of the study, wrote.

I wonder how much of this we could explain simply by the fact that the percentage of men who have graduated college has doubled since 1980. Compared to 1980, the non-college-educated group represents a smaller proportion of men. If you somehow took that same, smaller proportion of 1980s men by doing something like removing 1980s jobs that would now require a degree, then perhaps the salary comparison to the average salary would look similar to today.

yuppie_scum• 3 years ago

Being out of work isn’t a way to improve your social status

soganess• 3 years ago

But if being in work also doesn't improve your social status then why work? For the pure joy of being dog tired and not near your loved ones as often.

sacnoradhq2• 3 years ago

There are infinite ways of dealing with a generalized lack of hope and respect, but most people only see a limited set of options:

1. Work harder

2. Work smarter, maybe invest in attaining a profession or a trade

3. Make other changes like getting a haircut, wardrobe, yoga, or working out

4. Give up

The problem is when too many people see option 4 as their only option. Disgruntled, dissatisfied, broke dudes who aren't getting also tend to turn to crimes, pathologies, and distractions of despair that also increase morbidity. This downward eventually turns into a cost and burden on society. If you want a healthy society, make sure everyone has something to do and is getting some. Hell, the Netherlands has or had subsidies for disabled people to receive professional sex services. That's pretty damn humane.

sacnoradhq2• 3 years ago

Too many idle people is never a Good Thing(tm). It breeds insurrections, conspiracy theories, and the kind that go postal against random people.

eesmith• 3 years ago

I don't think Great Depression - a time when there were a lot of idle people - was particularly notable in terms of insurrections, conspiracy theories, or going postal.

As a baseline, consider the bombings from the 1910s (The 1910 Los Angeles Times bombing up to the Wall Street bombing in 1920.). I can't think of anything comparable during the 1930s and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_terrorist_attacks_... lists nothing.

Work is only one way of not being idle. If it were, we would expect retired people to be insurrectionists, conspiracy theorists, and instigators of random attacks.

Students and stay-at-home parents also busy, while not being idle, nor being included in this definition of "labor force".

hrbrmstr• 3 years ago

I realize the study was unable to or just did not perform “follow-ups” with the individuals they are positing “no longer work”. But, what exactly are these malcontents doing instead, then?

Living with parents? (Why would a parent enable this juvenile behavior)?

Relying on their spouse's income to survive (and, if so, is there any real harm/issue with this)?

Going “off the books” and just being part of the underground economy (in which case, this 'not working' posit is partly a falsehood).

Even woefully entitled dudes have to eat, no?

hotpotamus2• 3 years ago

I don't think one's level of entitlement changes whether or not they need to eat. I have to say that if the guillotines ever do come out in the US, it will be amusing to watch the billionaires trying to explain to those operating the scaffolds how entitled they are and don't they know that their income has actually increased 6% in the last few decades accounting for inflation? And how grateful they should be for all the wealth the oligarchs hold?

Frankly, the wealthy should be glad the poor are just tuning out.

Men are dropping out of the labor force because upset about their social status

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