How should I learn programming?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3632486

by ahmedjim • 14 years ago

9 13 14 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

Hello Hackers. I hope everyone is doing great. I have been a reader of HN for so long due to my genuine interest in internet and programming. I am a Finance graduate and an ACCA. Frankly I don't enjoy my profession anymore. I have seen myself interested in learning how to program and build web apps. I would like to know about two things. First that do we have any professionals out there who quit their former professions (finance, marketing, etc) and pursued programming as their careers? What difficulties did you face and is it worth it or not? Secondly I want to know the different resources where I can learn how to program? I would be very happy to hear from you. Thanks

Regards Ahmed

ColinWright• 14 years ago

Learn Python the Hard Way- discussed here:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2701504

While doing that, start pre-reading for your specific interests.

belmer• 14 years ago

First Off, you need to tell us what language you are interested in. Like PHP, ASP.Net, python or whatever. In that case readers of your post can recommend a better suggestion and resources to where you can learn to program.

ExpiredLink• 14 years ago

> do we have any professionals out there who quit their former professions (finance, marketing, etc) and pursued programming as their careers?

Yep

> What difficulties did you face and is it worth it or not?

Probably no: http://www.halfsigma.com/2007/03/why_a_career_in.html

drostie2• 14 years ago

I actually still think that one of the best ways is to watch some of the Abelson-Sussman lectures. Unfortunately, they teach Scheme, but fortunately... they teach Scheme. (They also unfortunately have prehistoric audio quality.)

     http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.001/abelson-sussman-lectures/

The bad thing about Scheme is that while it prepares you for function-oriented languages like Clojure and JavaScript (and hence Node.js) and to some extent Python, Scheme is not used by itself much on the web.

The great thing about Scheme is that, unlike Python -- where I suddenly find myself explaining that this is generator syntax, that is function syntax, and so on -- lisps (like Scheme) have some extremely simple syntax principles. This makes them very easy to teach to someone who hasn't seen programming before, and helps people through understanding what exactly machines do.

You may also want to start with JavaScript. (Do not confuse JS with Java.) JS has some of the best returns for its investment, because if you're building web apps, you will eventually have to face it anyway. (JS is the programming language of the Web.) You should run Firefox with Firebug (and eventually GreaseMonkey) if you want to make the most day-to-day use of learning JS.

JS allows you to more readily have a concrete goal. Concrete goals are great for the dive-right-in school of programming. Let me offer this as something attainable: Sudoku. Go and find a web site which lets you play sudoku, and if you've never played, familiarize yourself with the rules. There are a bunch of them, like "if all the other numbers appear in this row, column, and box except one, then this number should be that one number." I will give you a little bit of a head start on this: on the site puzzle-sudoku.net, here is how to get the board elements in a JavaScript object which you can then enumerate and query:

    // useful to know the JS operators:
    //   https://developer.mozilla.org/en/JavaScript/Reference/Operators/Operator_Precedence
    // and the floor() function:
    //   https://developer.mozilla.org/en/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/Math/floor
    function sudoku_groups(inputs) {
        var out, i, row, col, box, square;
        out = {rows: [], cols: [], boxes: [], all: []};
        for (i = 0; i < 9; i += 1) {
            out.rows[i] = [];
            out.cols[i] = [];
            out.boxes[i] = [];
        }
        for (i = 0; i < inputs.length; i += 1) {
            row = Math.floor(i / 9);
            col = i % 9; 
            box = 3 * Math.floor(row / 3) + Math.floor(col / 3);
            square = {row: row, col: col, box: box, input: inputs[i]};
            out.rows[row].push(square);
            out.cols[col].push(square);
            out.boxes[box].push(square);
            out.all.push(square);
        }
        return out;
    }
    var board = sudoku_groups(
        // this selection line would be different for other web sites:
        document.getElementsByClassName("brd")[0].getElementsByTagName("input")
    );

    board.boxes[3]; // write this to inspect the 4th box in Firebug.

I'm not saying you have to know what all of that does right now! Especially if you've never seen JavaScript before. But I am making your first programming task a little easier by solving the problem of finding the elements and turning them into a useful data structure for you to play with. Once you know the language a bit better, you might like to peek inside this to see how it works -- but you might also just use Firebug's "inspector" tools to see what the data structures look like without my help.

When you want to start solving the Sudoku, you might start looking through board.all to see which elements do not yet have a value. Then you might want to start writing and using rules like this:

    function fill_in_if_only_one_option_remains(square) {
        var options;
        options = [
            false, // 0 is not an option
            true, true, true, true, true, true, true, true, true
        ];
        // here is how you cross off a square from the options
        function cross_off(other_square) {
            options[other_square.input.value] = false;
        }
        if (square.input.value === "") {
            // to be perhaps written by you: cross off all of the options which
            // appear in board.boxes[square.box], board.rows[square.row], and
            // board.cols[square.col]. Then, if there is exactly one option 
            // left, fill it in, like "square.input.value = 9;"
        }
    }
    // then you can apply it to the whole Sudoku board like this:
    board.all.forEach(fill_in_if_only_one_option_remains);
    // it might be useful to look up Array.forEach() :
    //   https://developer.mozilla.org/en/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/Array/forEach

And then you might realize that this rule is not quite strong enough to solve Sudoku puzzles, and start thinking about how to describe even stronger Sudoku-solving strategies to a your computer. You might start a GreaseMonkey script to try to apply the automatic procedures every 1000 ms (every second) that you're on this page, so that as you solve the Sudoku the computer "helps you out" in realtime. You might start implementing 'speculative' algorithms, where you type 'a' instead of 1, 'b' instead of 2, and so on, to see if this leads to a contradiction somewhere down the line -- and your computer can notice that you're thinking speculatively and start to type 'a', 'b', and 'c' alongside you. (You might want to use an uppercase letter to denote the letter which started the speculative train of thought off, though, because it will quickly get lost!)

So that's the sort of thing which programming is, and that's how I'd look to learn it. Dive right in like a six-year-old: play for ten minutes, fall, hurt yourself, cry for five; then get up and breathe deep and play with it some more, repeat as necessary.

lowlyscientist4• 14 years ago

Abelson-Sussman's SICP is a steep learning curve for an absolute beginner: I'd recommend reading How To Design Programs first (and SICP right after), which is similar but a bit more gentle. It also uses Scheme, but focuses most at how to think about programming problems, and general "design recipes" for solving them.

drostie2• 14 years ago

That may be very good advice; I haven't seen How To Design Programs.

While the SICP lectures do in fact have a ridiculously huge scope, I was also surprised when rewatching them -- mostly with how basic they were when they started. "Here's adding, here's subtracting, here's what a lambda is." One thing that's nice about SICP is that assignment is very consciously "added on later."

I wouldn't have expected them to be beginner material either, but then I met a nice gal named emma on Freenode's ##club-ubuntu IRC channel, who was using SICP to learn programming. I remember remarking that this must be very hard and she didn't understand why it should be.

lowlyscientist4• 14 years ago

I am very interested to hear about difficulties one might face doing this, as I'm in a similar situation. Currently I am a scientist in R&D for a blue chip company, but have been programming for fun and as a small part of the job for a couple of years. I'm interested in moving to a full-time programming job, but am worried about the typical minimum requirements; after all, I have no CS degree and haven't been coding since a young age.

eric_bullington• 14 years ago

I'm in a similar situation -- transitioning from another profession, with a background in public health (epidemiology and biostatistics) and interpretation/translation (as a certified translator). I've been programming for fun and as a small part of my job for the last few years, but now have reached the point where I really need to find a full-time job as a developer since I'm find myself constantly drawn to writing code for side projects instead of focusing on my current job's requirements. I've been bitten by the programming bug, so to speak. I'm starting to pick up freelance jobs, and am working on open source projects in the hopes of gaining experience. I'm hoping to enter the profession through the machine learning/NLP route -- with my graduate studies in biostatistics, and fluency in several human languages, it seems like a natural fit.

I'd love to hear from others who have transitioned from another profession to programming in recent years. Advice from experienced programmers on how to break into the profession full-time would also be most welcome.

lowlyscientist4• 14 years ago

Was it easy to pick up the freelance jobs? One of my colleagues recommended just applying for contract work with a low rate - sort of just for a foot in the door - but I have yet to try this. How did you go about it?

SanjeevSharma• 14 years ago

I would recommend codeacademy.com. My 10 year old son is using the tutorials there to learn programming.

zack12• 14 years ago

Are you from Pak?

zync• 14 years ago

Use Code Academy - Free to Use

http://www.codecademy.com

Learn the basics of JavaScript on this site and then move on to other languages.

How should I learn programming?

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