The case against Ukraine joining NATO

https://warisboring.com/the-case-against-ukraine-joining-nato/

by mikece • 3 years ago

8 8 3 years ago

I think this article isn't very stimulating but here's a good summary of the case made by many "realists" about international relations on why Ukraine's entry into NATO and the US-NATO's encouragement of this was destined to lead to a war by one of the most prominent realists, John Mearsheimer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4&t=2751s.

mytailorisrich• 3 years ago

This war has so far indeed played very well into the US' hands so realistically/cynically/machiavellianly(?) one may imagine that they were actually trying to make it happen.

sillywalk2• 3 years ago

From George Kennan, author of the Cold War containment doctrine:

Writing in 1997 at age 92, he declared that expanding NATO to the east “ would be the most fateful error of American policy in the entire post-cold-war era.”

“Such a decision,” he went on, “may be expected to inflame the nationalistic, anti-Western and militaristic tendencies in Russian opinion; to have an adverse effect on the development of Russian democracy; to restore the atmosphere of the cold war to East-West relations.”

rat87• 3 years ago

That article is terrible and Mearsheimer is now a laughingstock. Not just because he was totally wrong with his claims about Russia and Ukraine, but because he refuses to admit it.

Note that realism isn't about being realistic but is an ideology/methodology for predicting other nations actions and deciding what actions to take yourself. It involves simplifying nations because realism believes conflict is about about power and ignores ideology, nationalism, politicians personal whims and the will of the people.

sillywalk2• 3 years ago

For Russia, Ukraine joining NATO is like the USSR putting nukes in CUBA for the U.S.

mupuff1234• 3 years ago

This just in - the USSR doesn't exist anymore.

Russians might think they are still the Russian bear, but that's long gone now, the world sees them as an annoying mosquito at most.

_kbh_• 3 years ago

I think the issue is that Russia cannot have another go at invading Ukraine if this one fails if they are in NATO.

So Russia stamps its feet to try and meet its imperial goals by dissuading the west from allowing Ukraine into NATO then it can reconstitute its army and have another go.

That’s not possible if Ukraine is in NATO. Which is why Russia screams about NATO expansion and non existent promises for NATO not to expand.

Because it’s very bad for their future ambitions of conquering a bunch of post soviet states in Eastern Europe.

n4r9• 3 years ago

The delicious irony being that now Finland has joined, Sweden will join soon, and Ukraine will join much sooner than it otherwise would have.

The case against Ukraine joining NATO

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