Ask News.YC: Were logical people born logical?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=355075

by palish • 18 years ago

9 29 18 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

Short and sweet. Your thoughts, please.

SwellJoe• 18 years ago

Yes.

palish5• 18 years ago

That was my conclusion as well. And unfortunately, it is a somewhat depressing conclusion. It means that not everyone is able to rise to the level of Mozart or Newton or Michelangelo (or Carmack, to use a more modern example). Certain problems are simply beyond the capabilities of certain people.

I honestly don't care whether this topic rises to the front page... I'd just like to talk about this with others. Do you have some time to chat here?

TobiasCassell6• 18 years ago

Malcom Gladwell has a new book coming out in a couple of weeks called "Outliers".. He delves into all of this, I'm half way through it and I cant put it down. He has so much proof! Proof of all of the contributing factors that go into the exceptional accomplishments of certain extraordinary people. People like Bill Gates and Bill Joy. It's a little mean of me to mention the book as I think it gets released on the 18th, until I saw your post I resisted mentioning it.

The only answer I have for you is probably not what you are looking for- there is a Buddhist expression called "mu". It means you have to un-ask the question before we can proceed, your question is like saying "are you still beating your wife?" Of course, either way one answers is incorrect- if you say "no" it could mean you used to beat your wife, and if yes thats quite bad as well. The correct answer can only be mu. So, in essence, there are too many factors involved for a yes or no . Get the book and then email me if you would like, I'd love to chat about it, its fantastic!

daveambrose• 18 years ago

Interesting question.

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Education.

shawndrost2• 18 years ago

I noticed myself learning logical rigor as I learned to program. My hatred of bugs classically conditioned me to think through things in a way I wasn't accustomed to.

However, as with most yes/no questions, the correct answer is is "sorta".

palish5• 18 years ago

Please, expand on that.

DavidSJ• 18 years ago

That was a pretty short long answer.

DanielBMarkham• 18 years ago

I disagree with the premise: people are not logical.

There are a lot of people with great analytical skills, but even those people consistently act illogically. It comes with the wetware.

palish5• 18 years ago

Certainly. Rumor has it that Einstein had at least one or two mistresses that he would visit from time to time. Those visits probably did nothing to improve his personal life, or benefit him in any way except emotionally (and even then, only in the short term; his jaunts probably had long-term emotional consequences). Therefore, those actions were probably illogical.

However, setting that aside for one moment... Imagine someone who most people would classify as "developmentally disabled". (I don't like over-general labels, but it is a relatively specific one in this case.) Now, the million-dollar question is: would it ever be possible for that person to solve a problem of the magnitude Einstein has solved?

It seems like the answer is no.

mstefff• 18 years ago

Perhaps born with the genes but developed over time with education, etc.

ivanstojic• 18 years ago

In short: no.

I have seen tens of examples where people of incredible logical/analytical heritage sink to the bottom of the barrel, as well as those that rise to the top from no discernible "good" set of genes.

There is more, I believe, than being born in making a person understand and function on a logical level. It requires a whole set of correct external stimuli, as well as a certain drive.

For me, I can clearly define two key points in my life: one that got me started in the right logical way, and one that directed me into computers specifically. As for the drive, it's also very much a function of environment, because I have seen my own motivation and desire tide and ebb depending on various external inputs.

In conclusion, I would say that there is potential in a majority of us to achieve amazing things, yet this potential requires specific grooming to blossom.

sarvesh• 18 years ago

Human beings don't always act rationally or irrationally due to emotions. So calling some as logical is illogical, assuming that you meant someone is completely logical when you say 'born logical'.

Where and how you grow up plays a big role in how logical you are.

nazgulnarsil• 18 years ago

anyone can become rational. it takes only the willingness to throw out any notion that is proven false, no matter how much you held that notion dear. with this one parameter you will arrive at successively more accurate approximations of reality.

abless• 18 years ago

What's a logical person?

giardini• 18 years ago

Of course not!

They were all babbling fools as infants.

dkobryn• 18 years ago

Consider the following analogy. We all have bodies, but few become athletes. We all have minds, but few become thinkers. I think this is a matter of choice influenced by ones predisposition and experiences. Inevitably we choose to specialize in something and that specialization strengthens us in some ways at the cost of weakening us in other ways. -cheers

philonous• 18 years ago

People were born stupid. Education (and in small part experience) is necessary to the development of the rational faculties.

mccon104• 18 years ago

Yes.

Or at least they have the propensity to become more so than others.

My evidence is very very subjective... based on watching children (ages 2-5) you see some have a natural inclination towards order and logic. They love legos, lining up their action figures/matchbox cars, coloring in the lines and when they color they only use colors that make sense (i.e. they won't color a tree blue).

While other kids love drawing/painting, giving their parents plays/shows, and creating stories that don't make any sense. They enjoy the chaos of turning little red riding hood into a who-done-it with Optimus Prime and Mario helping find gold on mars.

Ask News.YC: Were logical people born logical?

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