How to Surrender to a Drone

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2022/12/how-to-surrender-to-a-drone.html

by mikece • 4 years ago

66 27 4 years ago

Dystopian. As if the enemy would hesitate to mow down their opponents when they surrender. I can only speak for myself but I would never surrender to a machine. Machines and the internet dehumanize people and they are less hesitant to do something awful.

Rather I would identify myself if the drone was not confident of who I was assuming it was one of mine. [1] If an enemy drone came within 20 miles of my team I would be displeased with my signal intelligence group had they not instantly put HIMARS on the drone command center coordinates.

[Edit] I could however see pretending to surrender. My secondary team's sniper needs to shoot the frag or at very least the drone itself and we need to extract the encryption keys off it ASAP.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX4d4CvdZLA

mrtksn• 4 years ago

These are not autonomous, they are more like an extension of someone who controls them. When you surrender like this, you surrender to the military personel who operates the drone and not the drone itself.

IMHO these drones are much less dehumanising than artillery or missiles. Most of the time those who fire the artillery or the rockets never get to see the people they are killing, they enter some numbers and and press a button. Even those who provide the numbers might not see much as the would use clues and remote sensing stuff.

LinuxBender6• 4 years ago

These are not autonomous, they are more like an extension of someone who controls them.

I understand your point but I disagree. Yes a human controls them and just like a remote human on the internet the people on the camera are just video game targets. There is no way to communicate with the drone operator. People do not hear each others voices and do not have a real human experience. The internet has proven beyond any shadow of doubt that people will destroy other people on the internet that they would otherwise be polite to in person. The drone operator has nothing to risk or lose other than the drone itself. The soldiers in the field have everything to lose.

If we are at the point where people are fighting drones, it is clearly time to escalate. I know this will be a wildly unpopular belief but it is time to get the soldiers out of the field all together and use longer range missiles or do unspeakable things that will truly shock the enemy into giving up or more realistically factoring in Russian history, just wipe out the enemy all together.

Russia understands this. In the past weeks they have loaded up over 7k nukes into their silos and subs. They have recently retrofitted most of their massive bunkers.

nullish_signal2• 4 years ago

I agree that a Soldier forfeiting to a Plastic junk Whirlygig is hilarious.

Shoot the fucking thing.

LinuxBender6• 4 years ago

As a follow-on to this, anyone commanding Ukrainian soldiers, do not teach them to surrender to drones. Change your strategy to adapt, improvise and overcome. This may include breaking up squads into more/smaller squads. Snipe the drones and change direction as your location is compromised. Get your commanders to acquire equipment from the U.S. to block unapproved RF communications. Until then, use tree lines when possible instead of trenches. Use earth covered angle foxholes under trees when possible.

For the people pushing to surrender to a drone, if there is any assumption that one side surrendering will end a war or reduce risk of nuclear escalation, they are sorely mistaken. Russia will be attacking no less than seven countries sequentially should Ukraine fall. They have no choice on this matter. The planning for this started in 1991 and started going into action in 2014. The Russians have been planning to re-secure their new borders ever since the 90's. By new borders I am referring to land that resides in their neighboring countries, the former Soviet states. Russia itself can not be practically secured. They will not give up.

Some think Poland is next after Ukraine but I believe it will be Finland just based on the build-up in the arctic. [1]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yag0tPiXpG0 [video][5 mins]

voxic11• 4 years ago

Lucky the Russians aren't fighting the US.

In one chilling incident [the documents] detail how an Apache helicopter gunship gunned down two men in February 2007. The suspected insurgents had been trying to surrender but a lawyer back at base told the pilots: ‘You cannot surrender to an aircraft.'

https://fpif.org/wikileaks_you_cannot_surrender_to_an_aircra...

ceejayoz2• 4 years ago

Even if that's true legally, what a dumb decision tactically. Killing surrendering troops means fewer surrenders and results in more deaths for your side.

c3534l• 4 years ago

Morally, you're also killing someone with no intent on harming you who isn't an immediate threat. Sure, its not quite straightforwardly wrong, but it sure isn't right.

Steltek• 4 years ago

1991 article about Iraqi's surrendering to a drone during the Gulf War: https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1991-03-02-19910611...

Of course, that was a world first so not an organized or expected occurrence like Ukraine.

egberts1• 4 years ago

EM Pulse rifle, anyone?

mcculley• 4 years ago

I am aware of people talking about these in sci-fi and patents. Has anyone demonstrated use of such a weapon? I personally would not create an electromagnetic pulse anywhere near my nervous system. I am not convinced practical such weapons exist.

ceejayoz2• 4 years ago

EMP, no. Anti-drone guns, yes. Usually they jam the wireless signal. They also look kinda hilarious. https://www.droneshield.com/dronegun-tactical

nullish_signal2• 4 years ago

Or a net gun

seri4l• 4 years ago

That repost is missing a critical piece of information from the original article [1]. The drone in question is an unarmed aerial vehicle sent to a meeting place when a Russian soldier calls the "I want to live" surrender hotline. It isn't a protocol to surrender to an armed drone.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-army-video-tells-rus...

jasonhansel• 4 years ago

the "I want to live" surrender hotline

Genius.

goatcode• 4 years ago

After that the drone will move up and down a few meters, before heading off at walking pace in the direction of the nearest representatives of Ukraine’s army, it says.
The video also warns that the drone’s battery may run low, in which case it will head back to base and the soldiers should stay put and await a fresh one.

So follow it, unless it's heading to a base. Is it clear when its battery is low? Maybe it just goes faster.

trynewideas• 4 years ago

Loudspeakers for DJI drones in case anyone else is wondering if this is already a solved problem:

Mavic 2 US$99 https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1443226-REG/dji_cp_en...

The 10W speaker is capable of playing sound at up to 100 dB. The 100 dB audio intensity has a range of 3.3'. General communication can vary from 66' to 131', but specific distances will vary based on ambient noise.

Mavic 3 US$159 https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1730102-REG/dji_cp_en...

The loudspeaker weighs only 3 oz yet is capable of a broadcast distance of up to 328.1' at 70 dB and a maximum volume of 110 dB up to 3.3' away. You can transmit audio in real time from your compatible controller, such as the RC Pro Enterprise (not included), or you can save and playback several audio recordings. You can play your clip once or have it automatically loop.

walrus01• 4 years ago

What do you do if you're not in possession of any scraps of white fabric?

How to Surrender to a Drone

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