Organ donations, transplants increase on days of largest motorcycle rallies

https://hms.harvard.edu/news/organ-donations-transplants-increase-days-largest-motorcycle-rallies

by rntn • 4 years ago

48 70 4 years ago

hms.harvard.edu

daVe23hu• 4 years ago

guess riders should wear helmets to avoid shock trauma

robobro• 4 years ago

So they need fewer brain transplants, yeah?

citboin2• 4 years ago

No, so we can harvest their eyes and use their brains for research.

radu_floricica• 4 years ago

I'd guess most of the difference comes from drinking. I mean, you can hardly expect large events like these to be dry, but the combination is absolutely horrible from a safety point of view.

DoreenMichele7• 4 years ago

Bike rallies are generally large, crowded events that take place in rural areas or small towns with traffic infrastructure intended for much smaller populations and far less traffic, the researchers noted... The seven motorcycle rallies in the study each draw more than 200,000 visitors over the course of several days.

Hardly surprising to me. I paid accident claims for a few years. One vehicle, low speed car crash and people wanted us to pay their physical therapy/chiro treatments. One vehicle, low speed motorcycle crash and people wanted us to pay their surgery.

I will note once again that I wish we would do more to find other answers. Organ donation gets called "the gift of life" but some people reject the donated organs and die slowly and gruesomely over a period of weeks. If they don't reject them, it's crazy expensive, very hard on the body and you will be on anti-rejection drugs the rest of your life.

I'm not against saving lives and giving people a second chance. I just think this is a procedure that gets a lot of hype and it takes away from us pursuing something that might be better overall but just can't compete in the click-bait headline department.

waterhouse2• 4 years ago

I just think this is a procedure that gets a lot of hype and it takes away from us pursuing something that might be better overall

Growing organs from your DNA seems like the thing that would clearly work, if it could be done. Seems people are working on it. Some google results talk about growing those organs in genetically-modified pigs (!). Don't know how far away it is.

DoreenMichele7• 4 years ago

That's not at all the kind of alternative I have in mind and would be of essentially zero use in cases of organ transplant for people with genetic disorders. (Edit: For example, cystic fibrosis accounted for a third of all adult lung transplants in the US and half of all pediatric lung transplants last I checked.)

1letterunixname• 4 years ago

Ideally, your umbilical cord should be frozen at birth, a non-IPSC line of stem cells created and frozen ready to restore you, and your full genome sequenced.

In the distant future, people will have spare organs ready should they be gravely injured.

krisoft• 4 years ago

I just think this is a procedure that gets a lot of hype and it takes away from us pursuing something that might be better overall but just can't compete in the click-bait headline department.

What does it take away? It is a procedure of last resort. Doctors don’t plop in new major organs willy nilly. If there is any chance to fix what is wrong with the patient through other means they try that.

There is much more energy spent on protecting peoples organs (the ones they were born with) than on replacing organs. As it should be. It is just when a doctor swaps a medication or lowers a dose to prevent kidney or liver injury that doesn’t sound as dramatic and attention grabbing as a huge life saving operation.

Even in the “headline grabbing” department lab grown organs are much more catchy and futuristic.

DoreenMichele7• 4 years ago

There is much more energy spent on protecting peoples organs (the ones they were born with) than on replacing organs.

That's the narrative the world would like to believe for various reasons, but it doesn't fit my firsthand experience at all.

SuoDuanDao2• 4 years ago

The downvoting of your thoughtful (but minority opinion) post is evidence of the hype you mention. I think it's part of the postmodern rationalist ersatz religion that still holds a lot of sway on the internet to affect a disattachment from one's own body parts in the event of death.

hn_throwaway_99• 4 years ago

There is a reason doctors call them "donor cycles".

andrewflnr2• 4 years ago

I wonder how many if those accidents have alcohol involved, and if that matters to a transplant. Do they even check? I don't remember the number, but some ludicrous fraction of motorcycle crashes are caused in part by a rider who was drinking.

blaaaaa99a• 4 years ago

A typical organ donor has a severe head injury causing brain death, however generally the liver and kidneys are intact and metabolize alcohol fine. Even if they didn't, alcohol in the organs/blood is unlikely to have a signficant effect for the beneficiary.

kelnos• 4 years ago

Not surprising. I remember a friend trained to be an EMT many years ago, and the textbook had a (long) chapter specifically about motorcycle crashes.

Put a bunch of motorcycles in one area (probably an area with roads that aren't designed for that kind of traffic) and you're bound to see more crashes than usual. And because they're motorcycles, expect more of them to be fatalities than you'd expect with cars.

I also expect there's alcohol involved in many of these rallies, regardless of the legality or official policy of the organizers, with a lot of people in no condition to be on their bikes.

davidthewatson• 4 years ago

The statistical pattern noted at large rallies is likely repeatable at places like the dragon in the Smokies on a busy summer weekend. No rally necessary - the combination of roads, terrain, and participants predicts the result.

In a similar way, a simple query of participants would predict the result:

1. Do you drink alcohol on days when riding a motorcycle? 2. Have you had professional training on your motorcycle, sponsored by your state or otherwise? 3. Have you read a motorcycle safety book by David Hough? 4. Do you follow published guidance on motorcycle safety gear?

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/what-we-wear-p1-david-l-hough...

The one downside to state training programs is that if the populace senses that completion of the program is a rubber-stamp license, safety behavior that follows will not match expectations. There were at least a few accidents during licensing at my state-subsidized training and licensing twenty years ago that didn't bode well for the required performance, the safety of the rider on public roads, or the system that licenses people.

dsfyu404ed2• 4 years ago

The one downside to state training programs is that if the populace senses that completion of the program is a rubber-stamp license

And if the license isn't just a rubber stamp people will ride without them.

People who self select to ride a motorcycle are not as unquestionably law abiding to their own inconvicnence as the general public let alone subsets like HN.

citboin2• 4 years ago

Donorcycles.

Gatsky• 4 years ago

If you were designing a vehicle to help harvest organs, you would want a high chance of causing blunt head trauma but avoid major organ damage. You would also want the victim to be thrown well clear of the vehicle to enable quick access for resuscitation, and to avoid smoke inhalation or conflagration. You would also want this vehicle to be highly attractive to fit and healthy young people. Namely, a motorcycle.

jgilias3• 4 years ago

When I did my bike license the instructor outlined how different the approach to safety is between my EU country and the States. Here a helmet is required to drive. But not glasses. In US glasses are required, but no helmet. Meaning, the US cares about you not endangering other people, but you do you, whereas here they care about you not dying.

From a purely utilitarian perspective, the US approach actually makes more sense. And more donors. Win-win.

pferdone• 4 years ago

the US cares about you not endangering other people

Through their rigorous license process to operate road vehicles…yeah right.

nirui• 4 years ago

And this, makes all the dark humor in this thread even more dark.

dsfyu404ed2• 4 years ago

Driving is state regulated. Most states require a helmet on a motorcycle.

In general anyone making "in the US" type generalizations about stuff regulated at the state level is either misinformed and blowing smoke up your ass (more common in real life) or lying in order to support a point or agenda (more common on the internet).

nickthegreek• 4 years ago

Have you rode without eye protection? Riding without glasses is way more dangerous than no helmet.

ajsnigrutin• 4 years ago

I know it's a bit offtopic, but why is being a donor an opt-in instead of an opt-out process?

In our country, every employee has to pass a medical exam every ~3 years, and the same for college students. We could implement the opt-out option, give a grace period of eg. 5 years, where everyone could be explicitily asked if they want to opt-out (just sign this form) at a medical institution (or mail in, or sign a form online), and after that, everyone not opted out would become a donor.

I don't care what happens to my organs after I die, but I'm one of the many who are to lazy to actually go to a proper place to fill out a proper form to become a donor.

brigandish4• 4 years ago

Because opt-out implies that my body is not my property nor my heirs but the property of the state upon my death (and possibly before), whereas the opposite is true for opt-in.

Like most rights and freedoms, opt-in protects me legally better than opt-out but makes life more difficult for the group if people use their freedoms selfishly. I would never opt-in to opt-out because I value freedom and want humans to do the difficult bit of persuasion and education instead of coercion and the nasty ramifications that can come of the state getting even a camel's nose inside the tent of owning my body (and thus the right to do things to that body).

Pick any freedom/right you like and it'll be like this, whether it's speech or guns or right to silence or right to a lawyer, bodily autonomy against vaccine mandates or bodily autonomy in getting abortions… freedom is just so inconvenient for those who want what's best for the collective, but never mind the individuals who get crushed along the way to utopia.

So no thanks (and that includes your generous offer of a time limited opt-out).

saiya-jin• 4 years ago

Well no, if you are actually truly in your heart subscribed to any major religion, after your death its not 'your' body anymore, just some leftover soon-to-rot garbage on the level of trimmed nails or cut hair, nothing more. In fact, its rotting garbage regardless of your beliefs, nature doesn't care about those pesky things.

The other side is about saving actual lives in no small numbers, so what OP describes are tons of lives saved by just amending bureaucracy slightly, while preserving all those 'freedoms' that people like you keep repeating ad nausea anytime anything worthy is discussed.

If you actually really care about those freedoms, doing 2 minute bureaucratic work (or 5 seconds) every 5 years is no brainer. But if you just have knee jerk reactions to any change, well thats another problem on your side that is no concern to rest of society.

ClumsyPilot• 4 years ago

Like most rights and freedoms, opt-in protects me legally better than opt-out but makes life more difficult

At that point are already dead, too late to protect you. Dead people's 'rights' is a strange legal concept, and they shouldn't not be valued above the living.

Your pontification about 'mah freedom' doesnt work, because your freedom is someone else's liability.

If you have the right to a fair trial by your peers, now I have to pay the salary of a judge, and I have to go on jury duty.

But maybe by freedom is more important? Why am I being forced to do work in a courtroom against my will for free, is this like slavery?

So you won't get a trial of your peers.

ycombinete• 4 years ago

It's opt-out in Singapore

last_responder• 4 years ago

Religion

camtarn• 4 years ago

The UK recently changed from opt-in to opt-out.

WelcomeShorty• 4 years ago

Now let's see how fast these waiting lists for organs disappear.

gregwebs• 4 years ago

There’s a natural consequence that would immediately solve this problem.

If you are not a donator, then you can’t receive either (or at least you go to the back of the line).

Such a system would probably cure your laziness but you would probably have to switch to opt in default when implementing this system.

lazyasciiart4• 4 years ago

I can’t donate organs due to a chronic health issue. Now that disqualifies me from the medical treatment I am more likely to need?

As a sort of reverse of your proposal, in the US (and I think elsewhere) if you volunteer as a living donor, you are at the front of the line if you ever need an organ. And, this privilege is somewhat transferable to a person of your choice.

Hitton3• 4 years ago

Opt-in is much safer for donors. Imagine you are wealthy guy needing organ transplant. From buying 23andMe (or similar company) data you figure out there are several potential donors. In case of opt-out you can just arrange accident to happen and you have your organ.

hardware2win2• 4 years ago

It sounds like very theoretical scenerio.

If somebody wants to murder somebody for his organs

Why he cannot uh... do it just fine regardless of his opt status and literally take his organs without going thru "official" way?

Im asking because opt in by default seems to save way, way more people than your very theoretocal, probably not happening scenerio would affect

lazyasciiart4• 4 years ago

A number of countries have already done this and it’s not definitive that changing to opt out systems will make a noticeable difference in actually donated organs. Most of the “this is so obvious!!!!!” studies that promise huge results are actually looking at registration numbers, but if you die in a way that makes you a good donor option, the doctors in most places will ask your next of kin about it whether or not you are registered. In some places the next of kin can even override your opt-in (or failure to opt out). So social education/opinion campaigns that increase registration and influence potential next of kin could be a better move than going opt-out.

pvaldes3• 4 years ago

That would create perverse incentives.

After a car crash, hospitals could opt for neglecting strangers for the much bigger emotional reward of saving transplant receptors that they have meet for months or years, and are much more emotionally involved with. The reward of a guaranteed transplant is not what overworked physicians should have in mind when should be focused into saving our lives. People would opt-out in mass to avoid that danger. Is as stupid as the "non-resuscitate" badge.

If is forced, it also destroys the image of "each donor is a hero", that can be a small drop of comfort for his family. Even worse, it opens a door to turning young people in minorities with a compatible body into a target. It is strictly forbidden to monetize it in many countries for solid reasons.

gambiting4• 4 years ago

Yeah except it's nonsense, because it doesn't happen in countries where everyone is a donor by default. No one working at the emergency department has any kind of access or knowledge to donor lists, the idea that "we need to let this guy die so we can get his kidneys" is something anyone would do is insane not because of how immoral it is, but because it's physically impossible for your normal doctor/nurse/emergency responder to even know that this guys kidneys would be a match for anyone needing them. It's not a test being done when your life is on the line, healthcare workers are overworked as it is, no one is checking your organ match when you came in from an accident.

>People would opt-out in mass to avoid that danger.

So surely, if we assume what you say is true, the same risk exists if you are on the donor list voluntarily. Why would anyone be on it then? /s

>If is forced, it also destroys the image of "each donor is a hero", that can be a small drop of comfort for his family.

I fail to see how it destroys that image. Your organs go and save someone else - you are still "a hero" to the receipient. Whether it was voluntary or not, doesn't change that(and if it does in your opinion change it, then surely witholding your permission must - by necessity - be one of the most evil acts you can do, no?)

>Even worse, it opens a door to turning young people in minorities with a compatible body into a target.

Well now that's some complete dystopian sci-fi nonsense. What, doctors will go out and hunt young minority people on the streets to get their organs, to get that sweet emotional reward for successful transplants? Or who will do that, exactly? Please explain.

krageon• 4 years ago

It is opt out where I am, so I guess the answer is "it's not". We live on a world comprised of many countries, not just wherever you are.

Organ donations, transplants increase on days of largest motorcycle rallies

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