Ask HN: Why has PDF not been replaced with HTML5?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33787196

by fakedang • 4 years ago

8 17 4 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

Perhaps the answer is very obvious, but why is it that PDF has not been replaced by the HTML5 format for most on-device documents outside of programming?

Take for instance, company annual reports and pitch slides - you could make the usage of charts and data objects a whole lot more insightful by just giving the option to interact with the charts and choose your data selectively. The same goes for research papers - a small visual gif or video component would go a long way to show things compared to a series of sequential images, as would interactive charts - even the simple ones that you get from Excel.

breckenedge• 4 years ago

Momentum

thesuperbigfrog2• 4 years ago

PDFs were designed for typesetting, printing, and publishing documents.

"Based on the PostScript language, each PDF file encapsulates a complete description of a fixed-layout flat document, including the text, fonts, vector graphics, raster images and other information needed to display it." Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDF

HTML5 was not designed for typesetting and lacks such features. (For example, HTML does not specify page sizes.)

fakedang6• 4 years ago

PDFs were designed for typesetting, printing, and publishing documents.

That is precisely my question! With increasing prevalence of documents being processed online, why hasn't it been the case that the HTML5 option appears as prevalent as the PDF option in say research articles? I guess a complete phase-out of PDF is not currently possible, but the provision of HTML5 alongside PDF should definitely be possible? I found some online options to convert Word documents to HTML5 too so it's clearly not technically impossible, is it?

warrenm5• 4 years ago

PDF is well-known, and [effectively] universal

It's also "fixed" - ie, probably as close to a WYSIWYG format as has ever been created (so far)

HTML5 is ice ... but it's not a 1-for-1 replacement/equivalent

thesuperbigfrog2• 4 years ago

> With increasing prevalence of documents being processed online, why hasn't it been the case that the HTML5 option appears as prevalent as the PDF option in say research articles?

Many research articles appear in printed journals. If a research publication uses online distribution rather than a printed journal, then perhaps HTML would make more sense.

Traditionally research papers have been distributed as printed magazines and volumes, so PDF has been a common interchange format.

> I guess a complete phase-out of PDF is not currently possible, but the provision of HTML5 alongside PDF should definitely be possible?

Yes. It in most cases it should be possible, it depends on the use case, target audience, and perhaps the traditions surrounding what is being published.

> I found some online options to convert Word documents to HTML5 too so it's clearly not technically impossible, is it?

Probably not. It depends on how the documents are originally written and the "expressiveness" of the documents needs. Many research articles are written using TeX or LaTeX (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaTeX) which, like PDF, was designed for typesetting.

Microsoft Word and most similar modern word processing software will export to both HTML and PDF. Most LaTeX-based systems also support HTML and PDF output. Other word processing and document preparation software may have a range of output and exporting options depending on what it was designed for.

It is more a question of what the target medium (web publishing, printing, ebook formats, etc.) is and what publishing format best fits the document's needs.

warrenm5• 4 years ago

I addition to thesuperbigfrog's answer [0], PDF files tend to be static, and distributed in such a manner that you don't want them being changed without a relative high level of effort (yes, I know there are PDF editors)

a small visual gif or video component would go a long way to show things compared to a series of sequential images

Tell me how a small GIF or video is going to work when you print a paper or collect it into a book or journal, please :)

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[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33787463

fakedang6• 4 years ago

I guess I forgot to mention that with the greater prevalence of documents being online (including formal government documents which in fact penalize you for sending them in-paper documents), a lot of printing should not exist and should instead be on phones and tablets.

warrenm5• 4 years ago

You may wish there was less printing

It may even be desirable overall

But physical copies of papers, books, etc have a major place in peoples' lives (and will for beyond the foreseeable future) :)

...and gov't forms aren't going to have embedded videos or GIFs ;)

leephillips3• 4 years ago

Research papers: you want your paper to look the same for everyone. Equations, tables, and many elements of typography need to be preserved among devices. PDF is the only format we have, aside from just distributing images, that does this; HTML certainly does not. It’s a shame, though, that there’s no standard for embedding video that works for everyone.

fakedang6• 4 years ago

But these are the same challenges for websites too, right? Layouts have to be preserved as much as is possible, and if that's not possible, adaptive to device OS and conditions. Can you give an example of how HTML5 does not do the task?

warrenm5• 4 years ago

Give an example of how HTML5 is better than PDF for universality and consistency :)

leephillips3• 4 years ago

HTML never does the task, and is not intended to. HTML/CSS is interpreted and rendered by a browser. It will look different on different devices, with different user settings, user CSS, etc., and with different browsers on the same device, even if the HTML/CSS validates and the rendering engines have no bugs, and even if the HTML author avoids reflow by using a rigid design. This is true just for a plain paragraph of prose. Now add equations, etc. Sometimes this nonuniformity is a benefit, but for some applications you need to control the presentation of your document.

Ask HN: Why has PDF not been replaced with HTML5?

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