Two Bombings in One Night? That’s Normal Now in Sweden

https://www.commonsense.news/p/two-bombings-in-one-night-thats-normal

44 55 4 years ago

sn0w_crash• 4 years ago

This sounds a lot like the sentiment in San Francisco where criticism of crime, gang violence, or general quality of life is dismissed as “racism.”

This type of reality distortion field aggressively pushes people away and paints liberals in a bad light.

missionlocal12• 4 years ago

I wouldn’t be surprised if we start seeing explosions in SF soon. There was a small explosion on my street on September 2nd in the Mission (SF) in broad daylight. It caused damage to a building but nobody was hurt. The police deemed it an act of vandalism.

tmpz222• 4 years ago

Interesting, I live in the SFBA and haven't heard of this. 5 minutes of Google searching turned up no results. Could you point me to a news article of this event?

incomingpain5• 4 years ago

Sweden, which has a population of around 10 million, has the highest per-capita number of deadly shootings of 22 European countries. Forty-seven people have been shot dead so far this year, which, while far from American levels of gun homicide, is extreme for Europe.

The author missed this shot on this one. :)

Primary amount of gun crime is suicide in the usa. When you exclude these sideline issues, comparing gun suicides to bombings is silly. Sweden and the usa are quite similar for gun homicide. Moreover, they are for exactly the same reason.

Among shooting suspects, 85 percent are first- or second-generation immigrants, according to the newspaper Dagens Nyheter, as immigrant neighborhoods have become hotbeds for gang crime.

Sweden is a noob when it comes to immigration. Canada is pro-tier. USA isn't doing so good despite lots of experience.

More importantly, Turkey accepted far greater numbers of immigrants from the arab spring and doesn't have the problems Sweden/germany and north america has. why is very important and culture is not the answer. Canada is bottom tier compared to Turkey when it comes to immigration. They had multiple crusades through their country.

So how did Sweden’s famously liberal electorate usher in a party with roots on the extreme right? In a word: denial.

Totally disagree. Denial is what the left wing is experiencing. The right-wing has absolutely no denial. Sweden tried to do the right thing, give people in shitty war torn middle east a new life. It blew up in their face because they totally don't understand. Worse yet, the anti-immigration folks also don't understand. So the problem is about to exacerbate. If you think it's bad now...

Many immigrants have integrated well into Swedish society, but too many have ended up in segregated suburbs, where unemployment is high and crime is rampant.

To illustrate from history the problem. The city of detroit had this problem. Mass migration of poor black people from the south resulted in exactly the same thing. Bill Clinton many decades later failed to fix the inner city ghettos.

To say in 1966 that many black people have integrated well into detroit society is about the equivalent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Detroit_riot

Sweden is one of the most generous welfare states in the world: Although these neighborhoods are marked by high unemployment, there is no American-level material deprivation.

#theproblem

Yet police are struggling to maintain control of some 60 immigrant-majority neighborhoods—officially labeled “vulnerable areas”—where gangs and clans compete with the state for local authority.

Funny how nobody uses the word ghetto anymore. The swedish people have intentionally pushed these immigrants into ghettos.

In the meantime, those elites dismissed any criticism of large-scale immigration as “racism.”

For almost a decade now, everyone is a racist. This is a political ploy to silence political opponents. Every single death from a bomb or otherwise is on these people's karma.

The beauty of this absolutely idiotic political ploy the left-wing has been pushing is that it comes at a cost to themselves. Your political opponents love when you punch yourself in the face. They'll sit back and watch you keep punching yourself in the face. Greta came up a couple times in the article and she's a great example of political activists punching themselves in the face. Greta's political opponents gladly showcased her every opportunity they can because she was nonstop punching herself in the face.

I don't need a crystal ball to know Sweden will do absolutely nothing to resolve the problem. So in a few decades and an awful lot more deaths of mostly immigrants will we see the fix arrive.

noobermin• 4 years ago

What is the fix exactly?

jhbadger• 4 years ago

Time. People used to complain about Italian immigrants in the US. They seemed to have no interest in integrating, continued to speak Italian for generations, and were involved in criminal groups like the Mafia. But eventually they did integrate and nobody thinks US people of Italian ethnicity are a "problem" the way they did a hundred years ago.

incomingpain5• 4 years ago

Exactly? That's probably the wrong word. There are many 'fixes' there's no 'here's the exact fix to the situation.'

The author of the article is talking about 'integration' and such. I wonder how many people on HN, who are probably natural citizens, actually integrate with their society? I would guess that I'm not by many standards.

Now lets say we want to go to the extent of getting some antisocial hackers integrated into society and contributing toward progress. What does that mean? It's not just speaking the language.

Something the author clearly doesn't know is that Turkey took in far greater numbers than they ever did. Turkey also has far more experience with immigration. Turkey also has tremendously higher immigrant crime than USA and Sweden. Yet where's the bombing exactly?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime#/media/F...

So what gives? What is integration?

Well maslows heirarchy of needs is explanatory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs#...

Your most basic needs like food and water require you to have a job.

So do these immigrants have jobs? No they dont. The article says unemployment is high.

Is this because they are lazy? No certainly not. Now they go on welfare in order to live, which the author touts but that's not good. That's very bad. They need a job asap. This is the key spot that must be worked on and welfare is the opposite of what you want to do.

I bet you can see where this goes. Libertarianism and smaller government. Do ANYTHING to get them employed and the government can't be involved for or against. Deregulate whatever you have to. Make these problematic suburbs into free trade zones if you need to.

marginalia_nu4• 4 years ago

I think something that's missing from this discussion is why Sweden has had such liberal immigration policies the last two decades. It's often chalked down to some sort of misguided naivety, but the truth is the entire welfare system is in real trouble unless the proportion of young people isn't inflated somehow.

The generation born in the '50s and '60s is retiring now, and it's much larger than subsequent generations. Retirement age is 67. Their healthcare and pension is paid for by the working population, who hope the next generation will pass on the torch.

That's just not going to work if the elderly equal or outnumber the working-aged population. Liberal immigration is at least a plan to avert this demographical trainwreck of a disaster. Is it sustainable? Is it even a good plan? Dunno. But the other option isn't pretty either.

njdvndsjkvn7• 4 years ago

the entire welfare system is in real trouble unless the proportion of young people isn't inflated somehow
The generation born in the '50s and '60s is retiring now, and it's much larger than subsequent generations. Retirement age is 67. Their healthcare and pension is paid for by the working population, who hope the next generation will pass on the torch.

Are you suggesting it is a good idea to replace the native population to support the Swedish welfare system? Additionally, the article states that many of these immigrant are themselves using the welfare system. Wouldn't it be better to bite the bullet and let the country reach its carrying capacity naturally even if it results in some pain? I don't think this can be explained from an economic perspective.

I think the aging population simply acted as an allowing factor that made the discussion viable politically. But I think ultimately it happened as part of liberal immigration ideology itself. From that standpoint, the immigration policy is still largely a success. If all life is equal and everyone deserves the human rights, then from that prospective, even if the policy has issues, those issues do not outweigh the total net gain of humanity. Even if it comes at a cost for some people.

But the other option isn't pretty either.

Can you explain what the other option is and why you think it would be pretty?

incomingpain5• 4 years ago

Effectively the worker shortage of 2030 is very real.

Why the war in Ukraine? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Cross

They already have the problem. Population decline is going to wreck Russia.

originalvichy• 4 years ago

Nowhere in your comment did I find the contributing fact that Sweden has a drug war. It’s not 50yo ethiopian bus drivers shooting its young adults in drug gangs.

yongjik• 4 years ago

Sweden and the usa are quite similar for gun homicide. Moreover, they are for exactly the same reason.

Eh? Sweden has 1.2 intentional homicide per 100,000 people. The US has 6.3 [1].

France and the UK have 1.2, Germany has 0.8, Japan has 0.3.

The US has 5.8 homicides using firearms only [2].

Fun(?) fact: in the US, about 1,000 per year are killed by police [3], which amounts to about 0.3 per 100,000. An American is about as likely to be killed by police as a Japanese person is to be killed by a murderer.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_Sta...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_brutality_in_the_United...

njdvndsjkvn7• 4 years ago

Fun(?) fact: in the US, about 1,000 per year are killed by police [3], which amounts to about 0.3 per 100,000. An American is about as likely to be killed by police as a Japanese person is to be killed by a murderer.

This is a direct result of the larger population of armed murders in the US. "An American is about as likely to be killed by police as a Japanese person is to be killed by a murderer" is only true when you include armed robbers and murderers in the data.

incomingpain5• 4 years ago

The whole US is a violent place because of high immigration numbers debate is kind of beside the point. Who is more violent is kind of not that relevant.

The point of the post is the other stuff moreso.

wrp• 4 years ago

...Turkey accepted far greater numbers of immigrants from the arab spring and doesn't have the problems Sweden/germany and north america has.

This sounds like an important point. What exactly are the factors behind the difference?

jdmoreira8• 4 years ago

Very weird that the bombings and violence happen in the cities yet the vast majority of SD voters live deep in the countryside or in much smaller towns. Something is fishy… maybe the real issue is that people in the country-side everywhere in the world (US, France, Portugal, Sweden, etc…) feel like they are losing and have been losing for a few decades now.

yucky• 4 years ago

Are they wrong?

jdmoreira8• 4 years ago

No they are not. They should blame many things for that. Globalization, Government policies towards the inner regions and to some extent even themselves. I grew up in the interior and it was awful in part because the people made it awful.

inglor_cz• 4 years ago

"yet the vast majority of SD voters live deep in the countryside"

Is that true? AFAIK SD vote mostly concentrates around and in Malmö, an urban agglomeration.

"feel like they are losing and have been losing for a few decades now."

As the article mentions, one of the main topics of this election was "law and order", not "the countryside is losing".

jdmoreira8• 4 years ago

So you would consider the whole region of Skäne and Blekinge a Mälmo suburb? I spent many hours looking at the results maps last monday and to me it was obvious the percentages were much higher in countryside. Didn't look far up north to be honest but most of the population lives in the south anyway.

jdmoreira8• 4 years ago

As the article mentions, one of the main topics of this election was "law and order", not "the countryside is losing".

And who loves law and order more than close minded people?

Another big topic of the elections was the energy crisis and the price of gas… who loves their cheap gas in Sweden? Those cadillacs and heated houses are not cheap to fuel. I wonder if HN even knows most Cadillacs in the world are in middle Sweden. Swedish Hillbilly culture just blows my mind

Siddarth1977• 4 years ago

This is such a hilariously evil comment.

The article is about how disenfranchised Swedish citizens are tired of being victimized by crime and violence and having their legitimate concerns for safety be invalidated and ignored by false accusations of racism... and you turn around and continue to ignore what they're telling you to instead insinuate some other imaginary real reason for their voting changes.

Maybe try actually listening to people and trying to help, instead of making up a cynical reason why they're bad people whose complaints can be ignored? If you read an article about a women's group concerned about sexual assault, would you be so quick to disregard their statements and try to find a hidden "real issue" to shift blame to?

jdmoreira8• 4 years ago

I'm an immigrant in Sweden but according to you I'm just coming here making evil comments because I have nothing better to do. While the reality of the situation is that I've given this much thought and have personal relationships to many SD voters in the country side. Not the best relationships sometimes. Also these are not the most self-aware people in the world in 99% of cases.

slim• 4 years ago

or maybe it's false flags by right wing. see operation Gladio.

njdvndsjkvn7• 4 years ago

You think that the real issue of bombings in Sweden is that SD voters live in the countryside?

jdmoreira8• 4 years ago

Just questioning the causality link between the bombings in the cities and the rise of SD. These people for the most part don't even like city dwellers. The president of the party doesn't even live in a major metropolitan area.

Why are they so worried about gangs and bombings when those are for the most part urban problems?

Doesn't peak your interest? It sure peaks mine.

nonameking20262• 4 years ago

" while far from American levels of gun homicide, is extreme for Europe "

I can't recall the exact number, but it went something like "remove top 10 dangerous cities from violent crime statistics in the USA, it pretty much becomes like a standard European country".

theossuary• 4 years ago

That meme has been throughly debunked for years[1]. With comments like this, havkernews reaply seems to be falling to the lowest common denominator.

[1] https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2018/mar/28/viral-imag...

lurquer• 4 years ago

How has it been debunked? The only substantive thing your politifact link points out is that the US is not the #1 for murders. The poster never asserted this. As far as the effect of eliminating the top ten cities? Your link doesn’t address it.

nonameking20262• 4 years ago

I didn't say gun homicide or even homicide, stabbings are much more common in London.

Example this ad campaign from a couple of years back.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/23/uk-ad-campai...

But fair enough - I couldn't remember my source, maybe I'll dig up the article I was referencing, it might very well be faulty.

imartin2k• 4 years ago

In the light of the situation, the craziest thing about contemporary Sweden (and a pet-peve of mine to lament about) is that people's addresses (and a lot more private information such as who else is living in their apartment, as well as where exactly it is located in a building) are available to anybody through dedicated search engines. The only way to be excluded is if you are already having a significant threat against you (i.e. your current life is already "destroyed" , you likely had to move elsewhere etc), or if you are working in a few delicate professions.

One would think that people in Sweden would see a connection between the several weekly cases of shootings against apartments and detonations in buildings, and the accessibility of the information mentioned above. But no. There isn't even a debate. It's something I absolutely cannot understand.

Historically, transparency and openness has been crucial elements of Swedish culture and societal structure. However, it's a luxury which the country, in the light of today's situation, simply cannot afford to have to the extend it had historically. But no one seems to actually see this. It's drives me kinda nuts.

Two Bombings in One Night? That’s Normal Now in Sweden

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