Ask HN: a business person with reality distortion field wants me as a co-founder

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3288345

by throwaway1001 • 15 years ago

5 13 15 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

(using a throwaway account)

One can meet business guys willing to enter a technology world at every tech meetup; I've seen plenty of them, but this one (let's call him Sam) stands out. Sam joined the Big Four consultancy right after college, top tier investment bank afterwards, now in his early 30s, seems very energetic, communicative and well-connected. He left his finance job several months ago to do a startup, but got no technical co-founder yet.

I, on the other hand, have been around the block too, can tell gem from egg or jar, seen companies big and small, recently left my job and launched a reasonably successful product of my own. Friends pitch me their ideas periodically, but none of them really stick -- I'm not sure the world needs another to-do list app or "Airbnb for foodies", really.

Unlike them, Sam is very convincing. Every time he approaches me with an idea, I immediately buy it. He's capable of providing a convincing business rationale, a market volume, estimating risks and he claims he got at least some of the connections necessary to get started. I always feel hypnotized. On the meta-level I can see the difference in my perception of him vs. the other guys, but I can't really tell if this is a good thing.

Now he wants me as a co-founder. What should I do? Is this reality distortion field just a sign of business savviness or should I run away? I'm afraid of being manipulated, is there something I can do to have a better hand here?

jcr• 15 years ago

If you haven't studied rhetoric, rationality, and statistics, then you'll always be at a disadvantage in a discussion. Ask him to write down the idea, the proposal, and the rational. Once you have it written down, defang the rhetoric and then try to do fair minded due diligence.

throwaway10012• 15 years ago

Not sure writing down will help. His own words: "In the bank, when we were preparing slides for an M&A that buyer will clearly won't benefit from, we were honestly describing all the risks, but for each point there we were able to invent 1000 ways to mitigate it if we wanted to".

I guess, he's similarly convincing in writing as well.

xenonite• 15 years ago

sounds convincing. seems you are in love, now start by creating facts. you won't know if you are not trying out.

maybe he is over the top for you. maybe he talks the same to other technically versed like you.

still you would have the chance to work with a seemingly great person. can you ask him for a reference? someone knowing him well?

CyberFonic• 15 years ago

Big Four Consulting, then Top Tier Investment Bank => Warning Signs galore !!

Maybe your experience didn't cover being on the receiving end of these organisations doing a hard sell to win new business. If they were used car salesmen, you'd pay for a Lear jet (theirs) and end up owning a rust bucket, oil leaking Hyundai to drive to work.

throwaway10012• 15 years ago

My view is that this person is potentially going to be a business side of the venture, which means that selling oil leaking Hyundais to people around is a great skill to have.

mapster• 15 years ago

it does sound like you want to be talked out of something you know is too good to be true. and you know the answer to that one.

on the other hand - get to know him more. meet in person - vet him out.

paulrosenzweig• 15 years ago

Use his skills! Just because it's a tech startup doesn't mean a superb salesman isn't useful. Find an idea that puts both of your skills to work. Most people shy away from products that require cold calling to find customers. You have an open field!

teyc• 15 years ago

The problem is that you exist to help him succeed.

The second problem is he might not be able to convince people at distance, e.g. B2C scenario.

Third problem is he is not going to be useful for enterprise sales either, since these depend on long lead times.

However, there is one area where he may be useful. If you are doing channel development, he sounds like a great go to person.

BrandonMTurner• 15 years ago

I used to work at Microsoft, and there was a few of these type of people you described. My personal feeling is that their up sides usually even out to their downsides. However, there is a chance it really is a good idea, you really can execute on the product vision, and he really can sell it.

The way I think you find out if he is valuable is not is simple (ha, I say this, but I have no experience actually trying this so I could be horribly wrong):

Tell him you will dedicate to X amount of hours to development over Y amounts of weekends to make a prototype. If he can take that prototype do something with it (investment, sell it as is or with little more work required, etc...) then you will join him as a real cofounder. I would suggest something in the range of 30 hours over 4 weekends but it may depend a lot on the idea.

amorphid• 15 years ago

See if you guys can meet in the middle to test your ideas. Now would be a great time to read Eric Ries' The Lean Startup.

Donito• 15 years ago

Would you both be working full-time on your startup? If that's the case, which shows a complete investment from both parties, I'd suggest giving it a try. His solid background (e.g. Big Four, IB) shows that he is goal oriented, talented, and will definitely be an asset to complement your technical skills.

Also, consultants have the benefit of having been 'dropped' in many different businesses, and learn about their problems/structures. His potential knowledge of those markets would also prove to be valuable.

bigohms• 15 years ago

The fact is that very rarely do you get the sex and the brains in one package, in both women and cofounders. Learn to manage personalities and balance with your own, then go rule the world. Make sure he is committed to seeing this one idea through before hopping off to the next adventure.

gallerytungsten• 15 years ago

It sounds like you've met someone who is an ace salesman. This can be great if they can really back up their big talk with results. Make sure your equity split is equal and your interests are aligned...in writing.

Before you take him on as a co-founder, test-drive. See if he can deliver some results.

Ask HN: a business person with reality distortion field wants me as a co-founder

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