Ask HN: Why is Reddit deleting NSFW Stable Diffussion subreddits?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32675654

by capableweb • 4 years ago

19 31 4 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

As title says. Reddit seems to be on a banning-spree and removing anything that is AI-related and NSFW. The r/StableDiffusion subreddit recently banned NSFW content as well.

There is plenty of NSFW overall on Reddit, but AI-generated NSFW doesn't seem to be mentioned in any site-wide rules, in the Terms of Service and no reasoning is being provided by Reddit.

So why is this happening?

PaulHoule3• 4 years ago

For one thing you could make fake porn of celebrities, if there was some way you could teach it what an arbitrary person looks like you could make revenge porn of anybody without getting a real porn picture.

capableweb5• 4 years ago

But that's not new? Stuff like that could go into plenty of NSFW subreddits already, and faking celebrities heads on others bodies have been a thing since the dawn of digital editing (and maybe even earlier).

Regardless, I'd understand if that specific thing was made a bannable offense if that was the reason, but no reason to ban the entire niche.

Just like just because Photoshop could be used for what you're describing, subreddits about digital illustrations are not being banned.

PaulHoule3• 4 years ago

The threat may be overblown.

People like this

https://www.lesswrong.com/

have driven people into hysteria over AI safety, partially to make people think AI is better than it is, partially to distract against real threats like global warming.

ksaj2• 4 years ago

What you could do has so little bearing over what is actually being done. Especially since a rule banning misuse is better than banning an entire technology over a single potential use case.

They're not banning regular images even though the medium could be used for revenge porn. So why this?

PaulHoule3• 4 years ago

There are two trends around NSFW images.

(1) If it wasn't for the second there would be a gold rush of firms trying to replicate the success of OnlyFans, that is, there is already a huge business and the possibility of a much larger business.

(2) There is also increasing trouble around NSFW images. Consider CSAM. The trouble with CSAM is that CSAM is documentation of child abuse and that's why it has to be prosecuted. On the other hand people don't really get in trouble for child pornography which is hand drawn because the forbidden desire isn't the problem, the original crime is the problem. With AI image generation people can generate unlimited quantities of "child abuse free" CSAM which might reduce the market for real CSAM but will vastly complicate the problem of managing CSAM.

I think people will find other reasons to crack down on pornography. As ugly and stupid as traditional pornography is (e.g. consider the 'pigface' scowl that was routine in Penthouse and Hustler and is still common or the many conventions that I think are completely unarousing but seduce people in the perverse manner of 'this is common in pornography so it must be arousing'), I suspect the OnlyFans model is actually more harmful to users.

Payment networks are cracking down, for instance the polymorphous perverse site Danbooru got cut off. AI generated porn is just going to lead to more fear of things getting out of hand and swifter and more complete crackdowns.

Giorgi• 4 years ago

they are afraid to lose advertising money. That's why they removed all the NSFW subs from the frontpage in the first place and moved from forum-alike, into blog-9gag alike shitty format.

j0hnyl2• 4 years ago

I don't think that's it at all. Advertisers can target subreddits / content on reddit.

jjulius6• 4 years ago

Where the advertisers target their ads is irrelevant because they still have to pay Reddit for the placement. If Reddit hosts some kind of controversial content, people can argue that the advertiser is giving financial support to Reddit and is therefore endorsing the content, even if it's not on a sub they advertise on.

jjulius6• 4 years ago

... but AI-generated NSFW doesn't seem to be mentioned in any site-wide rules, in the Terms of Service and no reasoning is being provided by Reddit.

This is just plain not true. They very clearly ban AI-generated NSFW content, hence the removal of the subs:

Additionally, images or video of another person posted for the specific purpose of faking explicit content or soliciting “lookalike” pornography (e.g. “deepfakes” or "bubble porn") is also against the Rule.

I Google'd "reddit rules", this[1] page was the top result, and under "Rule 3" the reader is linked to this[2] page, with the above quote.

[1]https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy

[2]https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360043513411

capableweb5• 4 years ago

That's for NSFW content that is using the liking of celebrities and such, it's even mentioned by name ("deepfakes"). Images generated with Stable Diffusion is not "faking explicit content ... of another person"/

jjulius6• 4 years ago

Images generated with Stable Diffusion is not "faking explicit content ... of another person"

That's just plain old not true. Stable Diffusion absolutely can generate a likeness of a celebrity, just try it here[1] (I just punched in "Uma Thurman" completely at random and got a few likenesses of her face returned to me). You can download the public model and tweak it to go even further[2], eg nude.

[1]https://huggingface.co/spaces/stabilityai/stable-diffusion

[2]https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgygy4/stable-diffusion-stab...

vorpalhex5• 4 years ago

AI generated doesn't mean lookalikes or deepfakes.

jjulius6• 4 years ago

It can, though.

mrkramer• 4 years ago

Where I can see NSFW Stable Diffusion content? I need it for scientific purposes :)

vorpalhex5• 4 years ago

It's not fantastic. You really aren't missing much.

enterdev• 4 years ago

Why? It's their website and they can do what they want

capableweb5• 4 years ago

I'm not claiming they shouldn't nor they cannot, for whatever reason they want. I'm just asking if there is any official position/reason provided that I might have missed.

Ask HN: Why is Reddit deleting NSFW Stable Diffussion subreddits?

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