UnConj

http://clojure.com/blog/2011/11/22/unconj.html

by llambda • 15 years ago

83 19 15 years ago

t-crayford5• 15 years ago

Super amused to see my work on clojure-refactoring mentioned there. I don't work on that anymore (nor do I think clojure is the right language for me these days).

llambda• 15 years ago

Interesting. What language do you think is the right language, if I may be so bold? :)

t-crayford5• 15 years ago

I think clojure is close in some regards, but running on the JVM really hurts me these days (startup time really hurts TDD as I do it). I also think clojure has too much syntax (for a lisp), and am not convinced modern programs should be written in lisp any more (though that's hazy).

At the moment I use Ruby, which is much less frustrating than clojure ever was. (I seriously love the shit out of rspec).

Last but not least: stacktraces.

This isn't to say I think Ruby is better for all tasks etc, just that it fits where I am right now. Clojure is probably better for people with differing tastes to me.

fogus• 15 years ago

Thanks for the update. I've removed mention of your old project.

t-crayford5• 15 years ago

Note that https://github.com/joodie/clojure-refactoring is an active fork of clojure-refactoring. Nice to see the project actually going somewhere.

swannodette3• 15 years ago

Just wanted to communicate how amazing it was to have two of the authors of The Reasoned Schemer (Dan Friedman, William Byrd) there this year. At the first Clojure/conj I was opening up its pages for the very first time. To find out that such a powerful computational model can be described in about ~200 lines of Scheme was a shocker. To find out that it is also efficient was just unbelievable. I'd been doing Clojure for two years already I don't think it really hit me what Lisp had to offer until I spent nearly 6 months understanding those mere 200 lines and reimplementing them in Clojure.

Having Dan and Will around to bounce ideas off at the Clojure/conj was simply incredible. One thing I've disliked about the miniKanren system is that many finite programs do not terminate depending on where the recursion occurs. Dan & Will have been working on that problem for 8 years.

Being the unprincipled fool that I am I decided to tackle this problem head on. Over the past weekend I implemented a version of miniKanren that not only terminates now for an incredible number of programs (it implements fair conjunction), but it does so without sacrificing miniKanren's excellent sequential performance when you so desire it.

So for me, yes modern programs should be written in Lisp. We don't even know what modern programs should look like yet :)

dpritchett• 15 years ago

So that's where core.logic came from? I just went and bought TRS so that I can figure out where you're coming from with that.

swannodette3• 15 years ago

Yes core.logic is an implementation of miniKanren. Soon as Dan Friedman and William Byrd confirm my approach to fair conjunction is solid, I plan on integrating fairKanren to be followed by cKanren which will bring powerful constraint solving facilities into Clojure.

spariev• 15 years ago

Any chance of having recordings of these talks posted online?

nickik• 15 years ago

They will be. Im sure that the will pop up on HN when the are out.

Cieplak• 15 years ago

I'd really like to see a ClojureCLR Swank server for emacs/SLIME.

UnConj

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