Uber's still not profitable

https://pluralistic.net/2022/08/05/a-lousy-taxi/#a-giant-asterisk

by kranke155 • 4 years ago

59 19 4 years ago

pluralistic.net

gmoore• 4 years ago

it's bewildering how a company can lose money for 13 years.....

Zealotux• 4 years ago

Ask Amazon https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/05/12/strategy-letter-i-...

Ekaros• 4 years ago

I don't think Amazon is losing money, but investing it. Which is entirely different situation than Uber.

At this point Uber should have ready product and it should have already entered most markets it can. So where are they wasting money?

pwinnski2• 4 years ago

Amazon was making profit in one area of the business and investing it in another. Uber is not making money in any area of the business that is sustainable for more than a single quarter. Not the same thing at all.

rafaelero• 4 years ago

Uber is one of the few companies that will significantly burden my life if it goes out of business. I can't imagine having to deal with taxis again.

AlexandrB• 4 years ago

Taxis have gotten better (at least in my neck of the woods), and have comparable apps to Uber now. As for Uber's other advantages - those seem to be going away now that money for ride subsidies is running out.

CSMastermind• 4 years ago

This author is clearly hostile towards Uber. That doesn't mean that their analysis is wrong, but you should read this with their bias in mind.

Personally, I find it disingenuous to say that Uber offers a worse version of traditional taxi services.

The mobile application, ease of payment, and review ability were all genuinely large improvements over traditional taxi services.

I'm less certain about the two-way marketplace model being an innovation but I think a reasonable person could come to that conclusion.

None of that means that Uber will be a financially stable company going forward nor does it mean that they're a good investment.

But it's a little unfair to pretend they've never offered anything of value.

m-ee• 4 years ago

A major part of their value proposition was that they couldn’t decline your ride because they didn’t feel like driving to your destination which is now gone.

However that has been a lie for years now, and the updated version might actually be an improvement. Trying to go to Oakland from SF frequently led to drivers showing up and having to argue with them.

“I’m not going to Oakland, cancel the ride” “no you cancel the ride”

Or more aggravating, they figured out they could stop nearby the pickup point but out of sight to see the destination then claim that you didn’t show. This meant arguing with Uber support to get the cancellation fee dropped.

cudgy• 4 years ago

Drivers don’t know the destination before they accept the fare?

orangecat• 4 years ago

This author is clearly hostile towards Uber.

Very much so, and it clouds his analysis. Especially this:

Anyone who's taken an Uber since the lockdowns lifted knows that the company's prices have skyrocketed. What you may not know (unless you drive for Uber) is that the company has also slashed driver pay over that same period – over the past year, Uber's share of each fare climbed from 18% to 28%, a 66% increase in the shareholders' claim over the fruits of Uber drivers' labor.

If Uber's share goes from 18% to 28% then the driver share goes from 82% to 72%. This is a 12% decrease that is almost certainly more than made up for by the increased fares. The 66% figure is irrelevant in the context of driver take-home pay; he's just throwing it out there because it looks big and scary.

StellarScience• 4 years ago

There's also this bit:

The idea that Uber drivers are "independent contractors" was always a tissue-thin fiction

The truth is the opposite: the idea that they are employees is a tissue-thin fiction. They supply their own equipment, set their own hours, and can drive for multiple companies. Though some individual states have tried to adopt different rules, they absolutely meet the IRS' federal definition of contractors.

This too makes it hard to take the author seriously.

pwinnski2• 4 years ago

It's a little unfair to pretend that the author said "they've never offered anything of value," rather than stating that their offering is worse than taxi services now. Taxi services have improved in several ways since Uber's debut, including with apps.

Still, the author explains later in the piece why he believes the service is worse, and it's because Uber has given up one of its key advantages over taxi services, and riders are now less likely to be able to catch Uber rides to out of the way destinations--just like with taxis, but at a higher price.

cultofmetatron• 4 years ago

anyone who says uber is a worse version of taxes has to be inhaling the backend of the exhaust pope.

I have travelled all over the world. Every place that doesn't have uber and only has taxes are a huge pain in the ass. They tend to be over priced and getting a taxi when you need it is a matter of luck. In mexico, I had to walk to walmart to flag a taxi and get their whatsapp. Tnen it was a matter of if he was working when I called him. IT got better when I had a dozen taxi guys on my contacts but I still had to wait for them and only If I had cash. and that was where it was good. greek islands were worse! they jsut sit around playing chess till someone comes to them for a ride and the prices were exorbitant. also in cash.

Anyone who tries to say that taxes are a better experience needs to be smacked into reality.

spywaregorilla• 4 years ago

Glossing over their Q2 statements:

* Their current liabilities are a bit over their current assets and have been since the start of the year

* Their equity fell by more than half. Debt:Equity is now 3x

As always, the answer is that they can continue to burn cash for a while yet.

smaryjerry• 4 years ago

The article makes a lot of claims but uses almost no evidence. Half of it is complaining about adjusted numbers.. but does the author know that all public companies have to report GAAP as well, not only the adjusted numbers? Then there’s the claim of costs skyrocketing and drivers considering other options, but the used and new car market is absolutely crazy right now as well as gas prices. It feels like there could be substance but it is only surface level in this article.

badinsie• 4 years ago

Uber is the literal definition of a parasite. pretty pathetic.

Uber's still not profitable

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