It's me again, seeking advice. This time: Women.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=313041

by alnayyir • 18 years ago

3 31 18 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

So, I'm just going to go ahead and put myself out there for the heck of it. Met a girl a few weeks ago, we really hit it off first night, then she ditches me for an older guy. Met a girl last Thursday, AMAZING night. (No sex, it's just that we were incredibly compatible, she was a great cuddler, etc etc.) And she's ditched me for an older guy because he has money and quote, "that's what I need right now". I'm furious and hurt. Everyone, guy and girl, has been hurt in some relationship or another, but I seem to be getting the short end of the stick from a moving average and from a career average perspective. I have pretty much no chance at meeting any decent girls in town (Columbus, OH) because I don't go to school right now (no parents to cosign, so I have to save up the cash to return). The two I did meet were via craigslist. I can't really afford match.com because I'm trying to put money away for tuition, as I mentioned. I could afford it, I'm just trying to get back into school ASAP. I don't like bars, I don't like getting drunk, and I don't like the kind of women that troll bars, so that venue is out. Oh, and I'm 20 years old too. Any ideas for meeting women who uh...have a soul? Any fellow yc'ers in Columbus? I just moved here in May and this is worse than that small town I was in before. Thanks.

noodle5• 18 years ago

it sounds like you're going about things in the opposite direction. you don't want to try to form a relationship before you really get to know someone. leads to failure and poor self esteem.

it works best the other way around.

take up hobbies, be social, try something new, etc.. basically, get out there and don't rely on the computer to do the legwork for you. don't chase after every girl you meet, as it comes off weird and its not really the point. the point is to make some new friends and expand your social circle. if this means going to bars and having the occasional drink, do it even if you don't like it -- doesn't have to be a regular thing. eventually you will run into someone that peaks your interest. take your time, gauge the person, and then act.

or at least, thats my $0.02.

alnayyir15• 18 years ago

All I do is work-out at the Y, work, and study.

I can't think of a single activity that gets me out the door other than to swap books at the library. Not really good venues for meeting people my age around here.

Everyone my age either has three kids or goes to OSU. OSU kids only go to OSU venues and bars.

(I have a serious aversion to bars. Bad experiences.)

Thanks for the advice though.

noodle5• 18 years ago

thats what i'm saying -- go do other things. make room for them on your calendar.

if you're student aged and intend to be a student again, why not try and do student-ish things? can you join the OSU student gym instead of going to the Y? could you try and join some student organizations despite not being a student? are you interested in something in particular that you can go participate in (martial arts, soccer, a foreign language, whatever)?

pius2• 18 years ago

Everyone my age either has three kids or goes to OSU. OSU kids only go to OSU venues and bars.

While I don't know Columbus, I do know its type. My suggestion for you is to move to a more cosmopolitan city where you'll find plenty of single, interesting professionals and artistic types. In my opinion, it's worth the increased cost of living.

If you aren't willing to do that, your next best option if you're college age is to take a class or join a group at OSU.

mechanical_fish• 18 years ago

OSU kids only go to OSU venues and bars.

I seriously doubt this. Even if only 5% of OSU avoids bars like the plague, that's thousands and thousands of people.

Get ye to the Short North and find some coffeehouses. I know for a fact that these exist.

There are also other universities near Columbus than OSU, hard as it is to believe.

rms• 18 years ago

okcupid is the best free dating site if you want to stick with that route

alnayyir15• 18 years ago

Thanks, checking it out.

pius2• 18 years ago

Haven't used okcupid much for dating, but plentyoffish.com is pretty solid in my experience . . . lots of Ohio people on too.

alnayyir15• 18 years ago

Tried plentyoffish. Everyone my age has kids or is a drunk on there. Eek.

SwellJoe3• 18 years ago

Internet dating is interesting, because it re-arranges peoples priorities in weird ways for both men and women. As you've seen, women, when given a checklist of items that includes looks, hobbies, taste in music/movies/literature, money, etc. will (consciously or otherwise) take money as the most reliable indicator of the qualities that they consider most important (confidence, primarily). I'm extremely surprised that younger women are making the "money over other qualities" choice, though...in my experience women in their twenties are still looking for other qualities than "good provider" (like "rides a motorcycle", "has tattoos", "treats me like crap and looks good doing it", which funnily enough are also proxies for confidence, just expressed in a different and less productive direction). But maybe with the economy in the shitter, priorities get more focused. I dunno.

Of course, it goes both ways, and women are not at all the only ones to be made more shallow by the Internet dating thing. Men, when looking at a concise snapshot of a woman look at the pictures, look at whether her answers are sexy or not, check for fatness, and pretty much go from there. Things are tough all over, and Internet dating is frustrating for women, just like it is for men...maybe moreso, because women have to contend with the career Internet daters: Guys who look good on paper, and are looking to get laid by as many women as possible. There are a few women in this category, as well, but I think they're operating a bit differently.

Anyway, there have been studies that have shown that as a mans salary increases, women can overlook more and more negative qualities, like being short.

But "make more money" is not really the ideal answer. As you've noted, the women who are consciously making this choice are not women you want in your life, particularly in your youth when you still want to have flexibility to try new things--starting a company, for example, when you have people depending on you is much harder and riskier, and it effects your decisions and your ability to be "all-in" on a new business. So what is?

noodle is spot on: Meet more women in real life. Chemistry is a surprising thing. Put yourself in the position to meet lots of new people--activities like sports or theatre, volunteering, a part-time job working with the public (bartenders meet a lot of girls, though you've ruled out that type of girl, but there are others: baristas do almost as well, record stores used to be a great place to meet girls, but the record store is a dead and dying model...maybe an Apple Store--something cool enough to not be "that guy that works retail"). You'll be surprised by how many girls take a liking to you, once you're interacting with them on a daily basis. For one thing, your confidence goes up, and for another, chemistry has a chance to work up close, where it has no impact on the Internet (and when you meet girls from the Internet, odds are good there simply isn't any chemistry there--in real life you'd know it before you ever even asked her out, because you wouldn't have liked her and she wouldn't have given you any signals that she liked you, and you wouldn't have wasted your time or hers with a fruitless date and conversation).

And, of course, self improvement is good, too. If you find yourself thinking the only girls who have time for you are too chubby for your tastes, check your own waistline and get in shape. If you find they're too dumb and poorly read, make sure you're hanging out in places where folks are smart and well-read and reading good books yourself. This is another weird side-effect of Internet dating: You begin to think you need to find someone exactly like you. Same books, same music, same movies, same hobbies, etc. And that's probably not at all a positive thing. When you meet people in real life you don't know what music they listen to, what books they read, and what hobbies they have, until after you've already discovered that you get a little flushed when you see each other.

For what it's worth, on paper I'm epically unpopular with the girls--I tried Internet dating and was monumentally disappointed by the results. I reckon I'm just not very photogenic. But in real life, with face to face meetings, I've found that about a third of the girls I'm attracted to are almost immediately reciprocally attracted to me (even among girls I'd consider well "out of my league" looks-wise). I'm not particularly wealthy (yet), and I'd never wear or say anything to give off "wealthy" vibes (I wear plastic shoes from PayLess, for example, and I've been told that a large percentage of women look at a mans shoes right after his face), so it's not the money factor. But, I do think confidence has something to do with it, and you don't need proxies for confidence in the real world...people can immediately see if you're confident or not.

alnayyir15• 18 years ago

Only on YC would I get so thorough and insightful a response. Thank you VERY much for your time. You're exemplary of why I love this tight-knit community. You guys are great.

I'm definitely following up on the real life angle. A second job in the areas you recommended isn't sounding like such a bad idea other than that it'll be hard to balance a full-time job along with a second job and school (in future).

SwellJoe3• 18 years ago

The beauty of this kind of job is that they are throwaways. You don't put them on your resume, and you don't care if the pay sucks, as long as the hours are good for you, and you can leave when you've had enough of it. Since you'd probably be willing to work weekends (since your real job keeps you occupied during the week), you'll likely be able to take your pick...and since everybody is more leisurely and chatty on the weekends, that is likely to work in your favor.

If it were me (and I were your age), I think I'd try for a coffee shop, bookstore, or Apple store, around the school. I've heard that bicycle couriers are "swimmin' in women", but it seems like it'd be hard to get enough daily interactions with women your age to make it worthwhile...I think maybe there's some fantasy element at work there. It'd get you in great shape, though, so it's got that going for it. Which is nice.

Also, don't rule out non-work type situations that get you into crowds. Volunteering is a great option, for example. If the money isn't a big deal to you, volunteering will crank up your real world karma, at the very least, and that's always a win.

In any of these situations, you're expected to be friendly and chatty and you have numerous stock lines that always work and are not considered trite, which helps with the introversion (I'm guessing you're an introvert, since you've made it through high school and some college and don't really know how to meet girls--I've been there). All you then have to do is hone your senses for when the friendliness being returned is greater than the usual. I've always been much better at detecting the cues in face to face conversation than from across the room or in large group situations, perhaps it'll be the same for you. And you'll get better at it every time you meet someone new.

raju2• 18 years ago

Hello there. I too am in Columbus, OH, and although I don't see eye to eye with you (I am thirty, working full time), but I have to admit, I am surprised to hear that you find it hard to meet someone.

IMO, Columbus is a very balanced city, in that there is a good mix of students, young professionals, and everybody else. I would recommend what a lot of the others have suggested, get out there, do something that interests you in a social setting. Join a book club, go to a gym, study martial arts, study at the library or a local coffee shop.

I have learned that familiarity is a good thing. Going to the same coffee shop lets you to get to know the regulars. Its easy to strike up conversations with people who come there often and have seen you a few times. I would go to places where students hang out (places near the OSU campus like Grandview) is a good choice.

If you feel like meeting up, drop me a line, email is in profile.

alnayyir15• 18 years ago

emailed you.

raju2• 18 years ago

alnayyir - I haven't gotten your email yet. Maybe you can put yours up (here or profile) and that way I can keep an eye out for it.

alnayyir15• 18 years ago

raju@g m a i l failed, what did I miss about raju using google mail in your profile?

menloparkbum• 18 years ago

Take a class where there are going to be a lot of women - yoga or hip hop dancing are always good choices. These recently popular "adult kids' game leagues" like kickball or dodgeball have good male/female ratios and seem to have the underlying subtext of meeting potential dates.

Outside of that, it is hard to say without additional details. If you are tall, dark and handsome you just need to get over your social anxiety and get out there. If you're short, fat and ugly, you may need to strategize a bit more. Either way, 80% of winning is showing up - you aren't going to meet many people if you don't leave your house.

alnayyir15• 18 years ago

Not tall, not dark, and handsome...eh...I don't know.

Not especially short, not fat, and I don't think I'm ugly.

shrugs I'm quite horrible at sports. Well, dodgeball I might be able to do.

FunGus• 18 years ago

WTF??? No one has stated the obvious yet, so here it goes...

You're telling me that you're 20, have essentially no disposabal cash, you're NOT currently in college, and you're wondering why it's so hard to connect with an attractive 18-24yo woman??? JEEEZ!

First of all, a guy your age shouldn't be trying to get into any sort of extended relationship in the first place. That's insane. This is the age you're supposed to enjoy the myriad delights of countless, nameless women. Already done that you say?? Keep doing it. TRUST ME.

Second, you can't get "hurt" after a single date unless she bluntly calls you a "fucking idiot." And then only if you're a pussy.

But let's say despite my first point you still insit on trying to find a girl with soul...

Buddy, it's time to grow the fuck up.

Your financial situation is completely unacceptable to women unless you're a student. You're not going to be able to land a quality woman based on your guitar playing and fun attitude alone. Those days are gone. Women in this demographic are getting MUCH better offers than what you've apparently got going. This demo happens to be in very high demand by guys twith a lot more going on than you do. And yeah, most of them are "older."

So, if you really want to pursue this, you're going to shuffle your priorities around and START MAKING SOME MONEY! Or hell, if you have it stashed away start spending some of it. And no, I'm not talking about buying better clothes or cologne (though that's not a bad idea!). Instead, I'm suggesting that you take whatever financial, physical or intellectual resources you have and make some BIG moves-in the stock market, technology, IP, start-up, whatever. Use the enormous energy of your youth to bust your ass 12 to 16 hours a day - or more. (It's nearly impossible to do it after you're 30.)

Then, as your future takes shape, and money and purpose start flooding in, finding a cool girl that wants to stick around will be EASY. In fact, if you execute the next 10 years of your life correctly, your "problem" with women will be of an entirely different kind.

And Jeez, one of your dates was kind enough to explain this right to your face: "[money is] what I need right now."

By the way, I hope you don't take this as a FLAME. I'm telling you this because I'm rooting for you. :-)

alnayyir15• 18 years ago

I have plenty of disposable income, I just save a lot of money. I just had my business (I was self employed) crash after a two year run, and I'm cleaning up the wreckage right now.

I'm going back to college fairly soon. I already have enough saved up to live off of and pay a full year's tuition.

I don't play guitar.

My ex appreciated my personality just fine, actually, she loved me dearly, we just couldn't work because of the obscene distance (Canada). I'm sorry if being appreciated for who I am is too much to expect out of the average woman.

All I care about is money, it already is a priority. Hence, business that recently failed. Hence, having plenty of money saved up.

That chica thought I was poor. I live extremely frugally. My bank account is just fine. her fault for being stupid. I could afford on my income to pay all of her bills and food, all my bills and food, and all the bills and food of one of my roommates, and still have one or two hundred left over for random bullshit.

And that's not dipping into savings.

I'm planning on getting a nicer car, tbh. My car is too ugly. I hate to get rid of something that 'works', but it's just so fuck-ugly that I've got to get into a better vehicle. I was thinking about getting into more like an '02 year car, rather than my 91' Olds.

I've been poking around for a second job. A second job would catapult me into school in fairly short order. That or a car.

I'll start another business when the right opportunity or idea comes along. Most of my best ideas require 100-150k. I don't have that much.

Not taking it as a flame, it's just that through no fault of your own, you made some miscalculated assumptions about me.

I give off the appearance of poverty on purpose when in fact I have more money in my bank account than my father who earns twice what I do.

If a relationship is to be a purely mercenary transaction then I'd rather be alone or buy a wife from another country. I don't tolerate that kind of banal materialism in my girlfriends.

Again, I had a woman who understand and shared my values and appreciated me for who I am absent all other things. I don't see what's so hard about not being a completely vacant cavity of a person.

It's me again, seeking advice. This time: Women.

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