Programming Languages are PC OSs circa 1986

http://enfranchisedmind.com/blog/2008/09/20/programming-languages-are-pc-oss-circa-1986/#comment-33728

by raganwald • 18 years ago

23 10 18 years ago

enfranchisedmind.com

pavelludiq• 18 years ago

So what is lisp?

raganwald3• 18 years ago

Unix obviously, especially the shell.

Everyone says the Lisp "UI" sucks, but masters explain how you can be even more powerful piping all these separate commands together... And the eyes of the lumpenproletariat glaze over...

13ren2• 18 years ago

I think the inside (fundamentals) vs. surface (UI) is an important way to think about any kind of module - including languages.

Lisp is interesting, because one of the strengths of its syntax (that it's as close as possible to the internal AST so you can fiddle with the language easily) means that it really doesn't have a designed surface or UI (yes, you could add one, but then lose this key strength). Lisp wears its guts on the outside - very convenient for surgery.

Forth is similar in this sense.

BTW re your comment on the blog: he did say "Mac adopting Unix" (unless he edited after seeing your comment). The answer that comes to my mind is "Erlang with Python syntax". Pattern matching is tricky though - but doesn't Python already do something like [Head|Tail]? Or is that only on the RHS?

PS: lumpenproletariat - ridiculing newcomers who aren't as knowledgeable as you is what got Lisp to where it is today.

jwilliams• 18 years ago

When I first opened this I thought it would be an interesting dialogue on how langs/class libraries are blurring the boundaries with operating systems... Particularly with this "is the internet the os?" thinking floating about.

However, it's not that discussion at all - Was more along the lines "Java is like DOS because it's popular, and DOS sucked for all these other reasons (UI), therefore Java sucks"...

Metaphor can be pretty handy sometimes, but this just seems very labored.

ComputerGuru• 18 years ago

Exactly. None of the conclusions he drew about C# or Java are especially true. C# is one of the most reliable frameworks I see, and to say that OOP scripting languages are "better" than Java/C# (as Mac is to Dos) is BS.

evariste• 18 years ago

That was a lot better than I was expecting it to be.

Programming Languages are PC OSs circa 1986

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