Founders: would you hire a telecommuting, part-time (but talented) college student?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29821

by Psyonic • 19 years ago

8 30 19 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

mm• 19 years ago

why not? with the increasing efficiency in cross border communications, i don't see how remote hiring wouldn't work.

joshwa2• 19 years ago

A college student is already a risky proposition, part-time makes the potential payoff smaller, and telecommuting means that it's much harder for a hiring manager to judge the "talented" part of the equation.

So, no.

Psyonic8• 19 years ago

Josh, I expected as much, but it is unfortunate to hear. I really want to finish up my degree, but there is not a lot of startup activity in my area, and I am really itching to get involved with one. I've considered starting my own, but I don't yet have a good idea to go with, and I'd like more experience before I jump the gun. What if the student were willing to work for equity (obviously a small amount) rather than pay?

davidw• 19 years ago

Where are you and what skills do you have?

I think starting your own or getting involved with something locally is your best bet. That's the fastest way to get experience.

joshwa2• 19 years ago

It's a considerable risk handing any sort of substantial work to a new person in a small startup. I'm not going to give responsibility to someone who I don't trust completely and, being part-time, may not have the level of commitment to follow through, leaving me high and dry.

As you have probably read elsewhere, the choice of co-founders and early employees is extremely important to a startup.

That said, depending on your skillset, you might want to look for freelance work for smaller companies on places like authenticjobs.com or the 37signals gig board. These will give you good experience and credibility, and require less risk on the part of the hiring company.

sbraford2• 19 years ago

If he is a coder, how is it harder to judge the "talented" aspect of the equation?

People/soft skills are very important, but what % are they relative to coding quality/output/volume?

I've telecommuted for almost a year before, working for a startup.

Communication can be a pain and you have to be really careful about wording, etc. when you're using email / IM / etc. Without vocal inflection it's easy to mistake joking / sarcasm / bluntness as instead someone just being a total dick.

Psyonic8• 19 years ago

I ask this partially for myself (as I will be attending school as again in the fall, and am really drawn to the startup environment), but also just in general. What kind of qualifications are generally expected?

catfish2• 19 years ago

How much are you looking for an hour? Do you have a pet project in mind? How many hours a week can you work on the project?

Psyonic8• 19 years ago

I would be willing to seriously negotiate pay per hour dependent on the project. I really want to work for something I find interesting and enjoyable, and that is more important to me than money right now. As for specific pet projects, I don't really know at the moment. My interests are many and varied. As for hours per week, starting in August around 20 (I would be willing to increase this for crunch times, but within reason.) Also, another thing I haven't mentioned yet in this thread, once I graduate, if I was already involved with a project, I would be very willing to relocate. Basically all of the software mechas appeal to me (SF, Seattle, Austin, Boston), so that is a non-issue.

catfish2• 19 years ago

Perfect. Please send your contact info to jobsdca@yahoo.com.

I would like to hire you.

Answers that question, doesn't it....

tx• 19 years ago

I would. If I could afford you now :-) Because if you are really good and really talented, getting you to work with us 2 years after you graduate will be one hell of a lot harder.

jsjenkins168• 19 years ago

Yes, but I would treat him as a contractor and not give him equity.

At least until he is willing to relocate and become involved in the day-to-day operations.

cmars232• 19 years ago

Yeah, it would have to at least start as a pay-as-you-go model for services provided. That's the only way I could see managing the risks (potential inexperienced + remote location).

gyro_robo2• 19 years ago

That's all beside the point.

The point is what results you get.

yubrew3• 19 years ago

Early hiring is very important. I would evaluate you like a potential cofounder, and start you on a summer project to see how you do. IMO, from the founder's side, it is a small bet to place for a potentially large gain if things work out.

What kind of experience are you looking to get out of it? What skills you got, and where are you located?

Psyonic8• 19 years ago

I answered very similar questions below in response to davidw, so look there for a breakdown. As for the experience I am looking to get out of it... hard to explain exactly. I just find the idea of working with a small group of developers on something innovative to be extremely appealing, and the risk/reward ratio of startups to be satisfying as well. I would much rather work for a startup with a chance to make it big (and a considerable chance to fail) than work for a corp with a guaranteed chance of office politics and mindless drudgery.

yubrew3• 19 years ago

I like that attitude. Any way I can contact you? My e-mail is in my profile.

Psyonic8• 19 years ago

Another question for those that have already responded to this thread: What kinds of things would you be valuable to you in making a hiring decision? Personally I find resumes to be a weak indicator of abilities. Not to say I don't have one, but I don't think a checklist is nearly enough. Would you find a personal blog regularly updated with development related posts worthwhile? Should I spend time learning (reading books, etc) or would I be better off getting a few small pet projects going? In a world with no time limitations, I would like to do all of these things, but that just isn't practical (right now, at least).

yubrew3• 19 years ago

For start ups, I would much rather see someone with a track record with finished projects. Programs, code, apps, open source contributions, references from people you've worked with are all the things I look for as far as skills.

A blog is nice, because in an interview process, I only really get to know you for like 1 hour tops. In a blog, I can better understand your values, your interests, and what you've done.

Resumes have their place, if you have hundreds of potential candidates to go through. If you are a good candidate, you should have pages and pages worth of experiences, and it's now a matter of picking the experiences relevant to the task.

thomas23• 19 years ago

Bottom-line, you need experience. I'm young, 22, but got my job as lead developer when I was 20 and in college because no one could argue with my experience. I don't mean you need to go and work for a dozen companies before you can get a job where the founders trust you. Do what I did, manufacture experience. I've written around 10 medium-large scale projects by myself, one being a social network that wowed the founder of my current company.

One thing I know for sure, school means almost nothing. It helps a lot but only when you spend the time learning as much as possible about web technologies. As well as developing and refining your skills as a web developer.

Psyonic8• 19 years ago

That is precisely what I have been doing. I spend considerable amounts of time learning about web technologies and refining my skills, and it really has nothing to do with making myself employable. On average I would rather experiment with Seaside than play a video game. I am 21, and actually already have considerable experience in the work field so far, but have been unsatisfied. I think I would find a startup much more to my liking. Perhaps I will have to follow your lead and develop a pet project into something impressive.

sbraford2• 19 years ago

Build something cool. Throw it up online; see if it catches on.

The best gigs I ever landed were obtained without the use of a resume. Simply an email + a link to a cool site that I've built.

bkrausz• 19 years ago

As a college student who has tried starting a business and still does consulting work on the side: yes, but don't rely on them. Allow me to relate my situation regarding working while in college:

I have one particular client who relies on me greatly. They accept the fact that school comes first and we work around that, but things have slowed down significantly while I'm in school. I find it more draining to sit in boring classes all day than to sit at a desk working on an interesting project. Between that, homework, and the distractions of college life, I get little consulting work done.

That's just me though...I flourish when at a desk with a large monitor, not sitting in my messy dorm room with a 13" laptop. He may be the type who can handle both an education and work, or he may be at a school that requires very little of him. Everyone functions differently in different situations. Bottom line? Keep him with you with small projects, even if he is busy. You never know when he, like myself, will have the sudden urge to take a semester off and work on a startup (and be sure to be there to take advantage this opportunity if it should come along).

P.S.-There's also a lot to be said for working in the same location as someone, telecommuting kills my productivity, but again, I'm not the standard for anything :)

webwright• 19 years ago

Sure would. I'd start on a contracting basis (more "at-will", less paperwork)...

The challenge is actually understanding whether a telecommuting college student was really digging in, putting in the hours, and generating high-quality code. And, of course, there's the challenge of a distributed team (but that's a pretty well-understood challenge).

If you have a passion for productivity/GTD and that sorta thing, feel free to drop me a line. If you have passion for other things, it might be worth posting a link to a bit more information about you and what you enjoy. The only thing cooler than writing great software is writing great software that solves a problem that you care about.

Shorel• 19 years ago

Well if you want to check if somebody is putting in the hours, you could manage it all with Subversion and commit scripts. Then you just check commit time and frecuency ^^

For quality code you need (to be) a good developer to know that.

gyro_robo2• 19 years ago

Yes. I don't think start-ups need to be super-careful about hiring, they need to be careful about evaluating and retaining. The only way you know if someone is good or not is to give them a shot.

I would have no trouble hiring someone, but they have to get up to speed quickly, as I also have no trouble firing someone. Hiring should be flexible and provisional.

richcollins• 19 years ago

Yes. Email me (richcollins@gmail.com)

Founders: would you hire a telecommuting, part-time (but talented) college student?

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