Could hydrogen airships return as fast, cheap, green cargo transports?

https://newatlas.com/aircraft/h2clipper-hydrogen-dirigible-cargo/

by clouddrover • 5 years ago

10 12 5 years ago

Would be cool to see them return. The prohibition on flammable gases for lift seems bad to me. So long as the airships meet some safety threshold (which might be lower for cargo only ships or for autonomous ships - especially if they fly over low population areas) then I don't see what the problem is.

I wonder if they could first prove themselves in an area with less regulations.

a9h74j• 5 years ago

Worth the read if you care at all for details in relation to green technologies.

In his 1969 book about the early days of the helium industry, Mines employee Clifford Stebel admits that the hydrogen should not have exploded in this scenario, and hints that he tampered with it
These airships could be immediately useful to the hydrogen industry, too; H2 Clipper says that if you're looking to export liquid hydrogen internationally, as many countries are hoping to do in bulk, its airships will beat rail, trucks, ships and even pipelines on price over distances greater than 1,000 miles – while delivering the H2 quickly to just about anywhere on Earth.

Much more interesting than the snarky question, Green yes, but what color is hydrogen when it burns?

Perhaps the next big scientific apparatus which needs to be moved, can be moved by airship? The article highlights advantages of avoiding cross-modal transfers.

GekkePrutser• 5 years ago

When it burns it emits mainly ultraviolet which is actually extra dangerous because we can't see it.

dredmorbius3• 5 years ago

I've shifted to highly pessimistic on airship technology.

There was an HN post a few months ago in which vulnerabilities and history were discussed at length: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28119943

Explosiveness of hydrogen is only one of numerous issues. Airships are large, vulnerable, delicate, and complex systems. Neutral-bouayancy craft such as airshpis and submarines (as opposed to positive bouyancy craft such as surface ships, or lift-based craft such as aeroplanes) are at unstable equilibrium, in which a deviation from stability tends toward a positive-feedback loop. Subarines at depth "want" to sink lower, airships at altitude to fly higher, until crush or rupture levels are reached.

Airships have exceedingly poor high-wind handling capabilities.

The final question is whether or not they're even ideally suited to the roles envisioned.

For global cargo, with relatively short tunnel crossings, it would be possible to provide a linked rail network from Tierra Del Fuego to Australia and South Africa, via the Bering Strait and Java Sea.

The submarine "floating tunnel" concept proposed for Norway's fjords might make for a viable transatlantic rail link. This is a proposal which has actually been made, and which would allow for crossings in from 2 days (at 100 kph) to a fairly attainable 10--15 hour crossing (320--480 kph), and possibly faster (using hyperloop-like designs). The slower rates would be quite sufficient for most freight.

And airships would hardly be any faster (top speeds are about 160--240 kph), with vastly lower capacities.

Aerostats seem like useful tools for reaching and remaining at high altitudes with low energy expenditure, but not much else.

_hypx2• 5 years ago

You know, a hypothetical 400m long dirigible, made out of modern materials, could carry up to 3000 tonnes of cargo: https://erik-engheim.medium.com/calculating-lifting-capacity...

That would give it a cargo capacity of around 100 FEUs. Which isn't bad. Trains usually top out at around 200 or so. For ocean crossings where trains are either impossible or impractical (assuming tunnels/bridges), a large enough dirigible could really be competitive.

dredmorbius3• 5 years ago

FEU?

Do you mean TEU (twenty-foot equivalent units)?

I find a 3,000 ton capacity difficult to believe. I suspect operationally you'd find it difficult to ballast for when offloading. The article you cite is giving theoretical values based on a very simple physical model, not either a tested or even realistic engineering design.

The largest capacity proposed designs I've seen (that is, not actually developed) are for capacities in the 100--600 tonne range, from CargoLifter (defunct) and Aerosmena, at 160 and 600 tons respectively. That's about the weight of 1.6 to 6 coal hopper cars on a railroad.

Among the heavier rail loads is coal, with a single hopper car carrying about 100 tons. Total trainset weight ranges from 4,000 to 20,000 tons typically, and have been reported over 100,000 tons (682 car iron ore trainset in Australia, with 8 locomotives).

https://trainconductorhq.com/how-much-does-a-train-weigh/

https://weightofstuff.com/list-of-the-10-heaviest-trains-in-...

dmckeon• 5 years ago

huge manatee

Eye-roll. So, trans-ocean shipping to start, perhaps not to the USA or only to coastal USA locations, like the SST/Concorde. Medium to low density cargos, time-sensitive, perhaps high-value. What is too heavy to ship by plane, but needs to go faster than by boat? I would assume the use of some kind of lightweight container module, more like a fiberglass "Pod" or an aluminum air(plane)freight container.

yuppie_scum• 5 years ago

Not gonna be feasible with the windier weather we will experience over the coming century. Read about the fate of the US Navy’s experimental airships.

tamaharbor• 5 years ago

Looking at the pictures… where is the cargo stored?

dredmorbius3• 5 years ago

Internally.

The outer skin of an airship typically is not the lifting-gas containment itself, which is provided by internal gas bags.

Crew, mechanical, passenger, and cargo are stored within the structure, typically on or near the lower keel. See schematics of the earlier Zeppelin airships for a general idea:

https://www.airships.net/hindenburg/interiors/

Note that offloading cargo or passengers must be compensated for by either loading of balast, tie-downs, or by releasing (or repressurising) lifting gas.

vincentpants• 5 years ago

No. Just no.

Could hydrogen airships return as fast, cheap, green cargo transports?

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