Lithium metal batteries with diluted high concentration electrolytes

https://dgist.ac.kr/en/html/sub06/060202.html?mode=V&no=11dec1121064f9774052689be821e96d&GotoPage=1

by rustoo • 5 years ago

24 49 5 years ago

dgist.ac.kr

tiku• 5 years ago

Why can't we make liquid batteries yet, so you can tank "gel", discard the old gel through the bottom of the car at the "gas" station.

api2• 5 years ago

We can but my understanding is that there are issues, one of them being that these compounds are horrible things that you don’t want spilling or getting on people.

Any car tech has to pass what I call the “rusty pickup test.” It has to degrade gracefully and remain useful and safe enough for use.

Current EV tech passes that. I can totally picture a rusty old F-150 Lightning with aftermarket repairs.

yeetaccount2• 5 years ago

Makes me wonder about how Teslas will age. IIRC they have lots of small batteries placed throughout the car and I’m not sure they were designed to be replaced after wearing out.

mc324• 5 years ago

If we don’t want to have micro superfund sites, are we taxing EVs via refundable deposits sufficiently to ensure toxic metals are not left around?

southerntofu3• 5 years ago

remain useful and safe enough for use. Current EV tech passes that.

Does it though? I heard exploding/self-burning batteries, which were a problem with some cellphones, were a much bigger problems with electric vehicles? I don't have data on how often it happens though, but that makes me skeptical.

msandford• 5 years ago

Stuff like that exists. They're called flow batteries. There are a few different chemistries, one on vanadium, another iron and a third on zinc bromide.

justtemporary• 5 years ago

There’s a company called Redflow in Queensland, Australia that makes zinc bromide flow batteries.

[0]https://reneweconomy.com.au/redflow-in-running-to-deliver-it...

[1]https://twitter.com/redflowlimited/status/145896802782790042...

taf2• 5 years ago

In some sense gas is like liquid non reusable battery … the chemical reaction of mixing it at high temperature with oxygen creates a lot of energy… the other output is co2 etc…

A gel in a liquid battery that deplete would presumably have some other outputs other then just pure energy since the mass of that gel is gotta go somewhere…

ZeroGravitas• 5 years ago

We can, but just charging when parked is better than that, and better than the old way with gas.

There's no real problem left to solve, but it will keep getting better as charging tech, infrastructure, cheap renewables and EV availability expands over time.

tpm• 5 years ago

The real problem is the low energy density / high weight of the batteries (and as a result, of the whole car).

hdjjhhvvhga• 5 years ago

We already do liquid batteries, like for example saltwater batteries, but they're for stationary use only - too clunky to carry around.

kumarvvr• 5 years ago

Power to weight ratio, in such systems, is very low, at current technologies.

capitainenemo2• 5 years ago

For high density refuelable, IMO aluminium-air is your best bet.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21344135

capitainenemo2• 5 years ago

https://nocamels.com/2012/06/new-cleantech-co-to-power-cars-...

An example of a pourable variant.

GistNoesis• 5 years ago

If you accept low efficiency, you can use thermal machines (max efficiency of roughly 35%), you can DIY such liquid battery : molten wax and a Stirling engine. Melt the wax to charge, and store in a thermos. You can use heat pumps to increase the efficiency by recovering wasted heat.

Plenty of things are technologically possible but as energy storage is commoditized so outside the lab we only care for the best ones where cost, efficiency, energy density, power density, energy leakage and battery life define the Pareto frontier.

There are flow batteries where you can switch the electrolytes when they are discharged.

You can also use standard lead-acid gel battery and switch them when they are discharged. (Use multiple small batteries and discharge them sequentially).

You can also switch solid-state Li-ion batteries.

There are also some molten metal and salts batteries : for example Ambri (https://ambri.com/technology/) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8751tkBU_Q) make some liquid metal battery ( where the discharged state is an alloy, and charging the battery separate back to its original components. Their batteries work at 500°C and are 80% efficient (vs lithium 95% efficient), and need to be immobile when used, but other can work at room temperature.

eutectic• 5 years ago

Isn't diluted high-concentration electrolytes an oxymoron?

jandrese• 5 years ago

I read it like “OJ from concentrate”.

mathieuh• 5 years ago

Homeopathic batteries

sp332• 5 years ago

In this context, high concentration electrolytes have different chemical properties. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/sstr.202000122

Lithium metal batteries with diluted high concentration electrolytes

Related Stories